Project Ultima 7 Online

[Skutarth]

Please refer to the end of the Ultima 7 Online post for this message.
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For the character system, I think it you should be able to make a character and use any sprite you would like with any easy to use paperdoll face editor and import device.

I think it should look inbetween uo and furcadia for chatting...
It should look like before but with your face may be custom. You should be able to type a text message with Exult's cool backround behind what you type. It should appear by your face and they could read--so it looks like an npc talking in the original. Otherwise, there would need to be a party system and speak-to-where-ever Chat system type. Otherwise, everyone would be like their own avatar inside, and act or think as a good or bad avatar would. That's my idea of how it should work.

That would be cool.

Those are my ideas, and I will take suggestions. Please join me and I will listen to you, the developer, as I direct you what to do. Remember, it may be much work, but you would be very popular for it. Just see how far Exult is by being an open-sourced free project...
Remember how many people play it, like you! You would make a great experience to all the other players out there who still have good taste.

How would I find members on Sourceforge, anyway? Wouldn't it be hard to work together from large distances?

You all know it's the dream we all have inside ourselves waiting to brake loose, but a certain laziness is holding us back from our wants, but my crave is not a want, but a need.

I will start the project when and IF I have enough members.

Please consider this message. Thank you.

[Dominus]

> Please join me and I will listen to you, the developer, as I direct you
>what to do.

He he he he he. Nice one!

[Skutarth]

Yup, I'm pretty lazy. I was hoping other people could just listen to my ideas, noticing that I don't know any programming languages...

[Skutarth]

Don't say things like that, I'm trying to start a project!

Would you like me to start a topic called Exult Sucks and say a bunch of nasty things about it? No! So don't do it to me.

[Roman]

well, man

so what you are saying is you sit back and let the programmers do the job, and you get the credit....nah, I would rather work with other programmers on this one.

Oh and exult doesn't suck, because well, if it did, you wouldn't have downloaded it and use it instead of setting up some dos script that runs at the beginning of your computer so you can play it. Besides, if exult wasn't around, probably wouldn't think to try and get something like this to happen. Seeing as though exult is a reality, it allowed you to expand your mind and think of branches of it...that in itself shows exult doesn't suck.

[XxVenomxX]

There's another point however, and I'm saying this purely as an observer, no opinions stated in this at all. This is an exult forum, therefore you making an 'Exult Sucks' thread is an entirely different situation. If you're serious about this project, set up a webpage and create a forum there, post a link and have it proceed from there.

[Daniel]

He didn't actually say that "Exult Sucks" but instead, using that as an example.

[Daniel]

Skutarth heres how I think it should go:

Okay, we start with Ultima 7. We cannot think too big at the moment because it will take a long while for the wheels to start turning.
The pre pre beta release will be like this:

* No Talking
* No Talking to NPCS
* No Party System
* No Quests
* Everyone respawns in Britannia somewhere in the centre
* You can select any paperdoll (so long as it's got the animations for all actions)
* Any non party-joining NPCS will have a default paperdoll
* NPCS will still do their own thing but you won't be able to talk to them
* No Sleeping
* You can use items, use objects (doors, levers), fight and cast spells
* When a monster is killed, no one will be able to pick up that body or access items within until the 10 seconds has gone.
* items that you have put down, can't be picked up by other players until 10 seconds is done (the bakery would be madness without this
* If someone is using an item, you can't move that item around (ie: no taking other people's chairs when they are sitting down)
* Every door, cage, chest etc... will be unlocked
* No using carages, ships or the magic carpet
* Players can steal but the guards will be called if caught. Also, moving items around will be taken more seriously and NPCS will wake up if you move their items at night.
* No Pk'ing other players (Co-op only)
* Everyone will start with their own spell book and 20 of each reagents
* Limits on certain spells will be enforced (ie: no aramaggedon )
* The limit to clients in the game will be 100 (at this point in time)
* When players die, they respawn back again with only their spell book and a few other essentials. Other clients' spellsbooks cannot be taken or looted after Pk'ing
* A server will store all the characters on it's machine. The game world will be saved onto the server and continually updated. The server will have special privlages and can hack move, kick clients, import items and do anything to game. But these privlages must not be abused.

This is very basic and you just have people roaming around killing things and causing havoc because of them being completely dumb (dumb meaning can't talk). That is the pre pre beta and it's crucial to have a very basic version to add things to later.

Now for the pre-beta we will get a little advanced:

* You can talk, but it will be a saught've UO style thing. You can see what your saying above your head
* Again No talking to NPCS
* Still No Quests
* You can pick which city to respawn at
* Monster difficulty will be greater now.
* You PK now but only when you are level 5 only be able to attack level 5+ players
* Spells will be divided into certain types (ie: beneficial, non benefical) and you will only be able to cast benefical spells on other players.
* No Sleeping (sleeping will not be required yet)
* Monsters will respawn at a greater rate to make up for all the bloodshed
* Carages, ships and the magic carpert can be used freely without certificate but they will be limited as quantity
* The server limit is still set at 100
* Everything is still unlocked eliminating the use for keys, levers and the rest

At this point the game will resemble something like Diablo but this will not be for long. The beta release will change this somewhat.

Beta will have:

* No Quests again
* Talking to NPCS is allowed but only to shopkeepers. The quest speech options that shopkeepers have will need to be eliminated temporarily (Training, buying weapons, learning spells and purchasing food and exchanging gold bars for money will all be available) These NPCS will be indestructable for obvious reasons.
* Everything will still be unlocked
* The magic carpet will be removed temporarily
* More ships and carages will be located along shore lines and near towns. These are still free.
* if you run into someone or something with a carage or ship, the vessal will stop until you move direction.
* No sleeping yet
* Server Limit is now at 150 clients
* A Party system will be implemented with a limit of 8. Party memebers can still attack each other and experience is not shared.
* To execute commands such an inviting people into your party, a console will be used.
* Within the party, only one carage or ship can be used.
* Party memebers can't access each others backpacks but will be able to see the paperdoll and level satistics.

Some of the options in the beta will be hard to program in but will be well worth it. Now for Pre-alpha there will need to be some changes to make the world more sustainable. Such things will include new NPCS to assist with hunting rewards. With everyone raiding the dungeons and such, there isn't going to be a lot of gold left

Pre-alpha will have:

* Newer NPCS that will reward you for particular animal and monster carcasses. These will be located in all different cities and will be the main source of income for many.
* A descent magic shop that sells staffs and other little goodies
* Another Bakery for those who enjoy making bread
* No quests still
* Everythings unlocked still
* Chat Bubbles can be opened if you want to sell items and the like.

And that's all I can think of at the moment. What I'm hoping for will be a Spell System that PK's can't take advantage of. Some exploits could easily occur such as casting mass sleep on a party and then bombarding them with firebolts, then looting all their items. Also, i don't really think the main quest of ultima 7 can be done in U7Online. There are many reasons and the complications of such a task would be incredible. Side quests you might be able to get a way with, providing that they are modified in such a way to suite the MMORPG environment. Still don't know what can be done about doors and keys.

Now I understand this will be a massive undertaking so we will need alot of people to help here. Exult will be what U7Online runs on and we will only use the offical releases of Exult. Whever there is an offical update announced we will update U7Online to suite the newer version. You might call U7Online an add-on for Exult because that is what it will essentially be.
If any one has any suggestions or want to help program please keep posting here.

I also want to say that what I have suggested above is in no way perfect, and I would appreciate any corrections (not spelling ones if you can help it

[XxVenomxX]

I never said he actually said it, I'm just saying his making that example isn't really relavant

[nadir]

Why does pre-alpha come after beta ?

[Roman]

good question...

[Skutarth]

You would be better off just making another game, dude. I think it should be just like the other one but with my chatting and party system ideas.

BTW, I can make websites, sort of. I could run the site and give news updates. I am going to learn c++ if I get a team and the project started.

Pre-alpha comes before alpha, right?

[Skutarth]

I am going to learn C++.
Any guide I can refer to?

BTW, I am going to make it where you start again if you finish the game, like Diablo!

[Eric]

Depends on how serious you are. I'd suggest starting simple. Look for a few quick tutorials and sample code off of the Internet. If it's not too hard to learn and you like it then I'd suggest going to a computer book store and grabbing yourself a book on C++. I'm a web coder so I don't really know what's all involved in this kind of project, but I don't imagine it's that easy to just join in starting green. While you're learning I'm sure some of the developers here would be willing to answer your questions heed you run into any problems.

[Darke]

Firstly, I'd suggest that diving straight into exult's code having just
learned C++ is probably the Wrong thing to do. *grin* Between the complexity
of the code, and it's 'evolved' nature, it's likely going to be a bit of an
effort understanding it.

Here's a few 'useful' links to web C++ tutorials:

http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/

A relatively good tutorial, but a bit 'old' in comparison to the current
standard (one example is that it uses rather then ).
But good in general and a relatively easy read. I'm using it to teach a friend
at the moment.

http://www.functionx.com/cpp/

This looks very good, although I haven't really had a chance to look much in
depth with it. It's the equivalent of a 'teach yourself C++' textbook,
although IMHO, much more readable then most I've seen.

http://www.4p8.com/eric.brasseur/cppcen.html

If you already know C, then this might be useful, it's a quick C++ tutorial
for those who already know C. But it does look like it has some dubious code
in it's examples though.

http://www.glenmccl.com/tutor.htm

Not really a tutorial, more of a pot-luck type "I'm interested in
$(language feature), I'll go look it up." page, which doesn't seem too bad
in it's execution. Just don't go there expecting a linear tutorial to get you
from no programming skill to 'knowing' C++. *grin*

I might drop more links in later, if I locate any more of interest.

Darke

[andy]

well, this online project sounds like most open source projects - doomed to failure. don't get me wrong... there's alot of really REALLY good stuff out there (like exult), but look at the project failure rate on sourceforge. its abysmal.

besides which... you're setting your goals way too high. the first thing you should be doing is proving that u7 can even be run as a network game. my suggestion would be to create a private branch and split the game logic from the interface - but, you should do it incrementally.

in the first iteration, you should probably build 2 different libraries. one is the game logic (server) the other is the interface (client). you can use this time to finalize the interfaces for an eventual network abstraction. note that the game itself is still the single player u7 that we all love.

the second iteration would be to begin making the interfaces between the client and the server remotable.

at this point (probably a year from now depending on committment level), you should have finalized your interfaces and you should be able to really sit down and figure out what direction you want to take the game. MMORPG, diablo-esque, GMUD, etc.

besides, there may turn out to be some benefit to the actual exult engine from the first iteration. it provides a good oppurtunity to look at the game a little differently and may highlight some oppurtunities for extension or optimization.

on a side note, i was considering breaking out the windowing environment into a separate library as well - at least the gump stuff. besides, it might be useful in the future, especially for exult studio. you could create your own dialogs with ease - well, relative ease. but that was just an idea, i don't think i have enough proficiency with windowing code to develop a windowing environment. my specialty is client/server applications go figure.

andy

[Daniel]

umm... I don't know how I got the beta before alpha?

But you're right andy, we need to start small and figure out whether U7 can be done on a network environment. I was just listing a couple things that would help once the game engine was devised. It looks to as a pretty complicated task but if we were to start with making a new game like Skutarth suggested, It would require even more effort and we can't be sure then that U7 fans would be interested in it.

[Daniel]

I don't think you can ever be sure u7 fans will like anything. Most of them are a picky lot that are afraid of change.

[XxVenomxX]

Don't consider yourself a u7 fan then?

Fans like myself aren't afraid of change, we're skeptical that a plan such as this will be successful (and by that, I don't mean finished, I mean it works as an 'improvement'). And I think any fan of, well, *anything* has a right to feel so. It's like someone saying they're going to write a fan fiction about a favorite movie. Some fans will be skeptical about it until they read it. As long as changes remain optional then there's no problem. Such as I opt to play Exult to emulate U7 as I originally played it

You should practice what you preach. You condemn people for passing judgement on people like Skutarth, yet you keep lumping 'u7 fans' as 'they'. The fan base here is a small percentage of all u7 fans, naturally. So there's no way you can make that statement as fact.

The moral of the story: Don't add fuel to the fire.

[Skutarth]

Yes, you are all right. The process WILL be complicated... It might fail... We don't know if anyone will like it...

Hmm...

[Daniel]

XxVenomxX,

I was simply stating the obvious, alot (not all) U7 fans are afraid of change. I said "most" because that's the way I see it when I read the messages on this forum. Never did I say that it was a pure fact.

I don't consider it as condemning others either, but an more like an indirect message. I do however consider myself a fan of U7 and could actually be seen as "afraid of change", in the sense that I hate the party formation for exult! That is one change that hasn't remained optional and therefore I hate it. See? I fall under that catagory too.

Now, how do you actually define an "improvement"? Is it an improvement so long as the developers enjoy it? The new party formation is seen as a "feature" by Jeff, but is not an optional one. Like you said "As long as changes remain optional then there's no problem."

If you challenge me to program the original party formation in, I say to you, "no". I don't know how to program and it doesn't look like I will learn in the near future (c++ for that matter). But a so called "feature" is there and is not optional. I know used the term "U7 fan" loosly. Now that I think about it, I really only meant the people on this forum because that is where I get my impression from.

Ultima 7 would be really cool to have as an addition (add-on) which makes the change totally optional.

[SB-X]

What change? The party system? It would be an option if someone had the time to code it, but I guess they don't.

[XxVenomxX]

Thanks for the clearer explanation, that's all I was looking for. Anyways, I dont have much time to type now, but I understand where you're coming from. The party formation never really bugged me, but I can see where it would bother some.
True, the answer to most 'I want this fixed' queries is 'do it yourself, if you want it so much', and thats expected. I'm only speaking on behalf of myself when I type this stuff. Don't think that what I said applies to others. It's just that the manner in which you wrote earlier presents itself as u7 fans being this ugly little group that you don't include yourself in, I just felt the need to get clarification, is all.
When it comes down to it, if Project U7O is completed, sure I'll try it out. But as with many things (as I was with exult in the beginning) I'll be skeptical, thats all.

[Skutarth]

It doesn't bother me at all, the formation that is.

[Daniel]

Thanks for understanding there Venom

[drcode]

The way that the party follows should work better now (in the next snapshot). It's still not the 'formation' method of the original, but the companions ought to follow more closely.

[Daniel]

Yippie!
Finally some progress, thanks

[RedEyes]

yes it is a great ideia


but how to put it in pratice


i want to help it anyway

[Skutarth]

I have one local member right now, one I don't know about yet...

I'm putting this project on hold until I finish my Spark paperdoll.

I'll keep you posted.