Do gargoyles have gender?

IgnitusDragonn · Post by **IgnitusDragonn** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:51 am

For some reason this just popped up in my mind, does anyone know if gargoyles have a gender? Or a way to tell them apart.

Post by **artaxerxes** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:57 am

you just call it.

If he comes, then it's a male.

If she comes, then it's a female.

Artaxerxes

IgnitusDragonn · Post by **IgnitusDragonn** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 8:11 am

Sorry I got a bit of a perverted image there...but seriously i dont remember any female gargoyles...

SB-X · Post by **SB-X** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 8:26 am

SnowyThing · Post by **SnowyThing** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 10:04 pm

O.o;; Me neither... but wasn't there a female one in that one Gargoyle house in Britain? Near the Egg/Chicken farm?

Roman · Post by **Roman** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 4:47 am

hello, the ones that have the babies are female...just like every other species....lol haven't you seen the u7 gargoyle birth

IgnitusDragonn · Post by **IgnitusDragonn** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 7:12 am

No I've not seen the "u7 gargoyle birth" I faintly remember something about "very few gargoyles are born..." errm that is, some type of excuse for there not being any female daemons.

Stephan · Post by **Stephan** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 7:17 am

No, no, no. Gargoyles don't have any gender at all. Unless you believe what U9 tells you, but if you do that there's not much hope for you at all. The gargoyle reproductive system was never explained in the Ultimas - it's one of those things that should remain a mystery.

IgnitusDragonn · Post by **IgnitusDragonn** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 7:19 am

Whats weird is, they seem to show very masculine traits.

Soule · Post by **Soule** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 7:21 am

But we know they emerge from eggs...

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 7:49 am

Well, according to U7, gargoyles come from a parent (note no gender in that title) who lays an egg. The keeper of the temple in Terfin was the parent gargoyle of Inamo (the one murdered in Trinsic). From that, it seems that any gargoyle can have children. The gargoyle in LBs castle tells you to seek Draxinisom to find the parent gargoyle. To me, that implies that any gargoyle can have children.

U9, however, claims there is a queen gargoyle that lays all of the eggs and is thus responsible for propogating the species. You have to find a Queen Egg from her nest before Ambrosia is destroyed so that the gargoyle race can continue. This obviously implies that gargoyle reproduce similar to ants or bees.

I don't think gargoyles have a gender. I don't recall anything in U7 saying "she" referring to a gargoyle. I haven't played U6, so I don't know if there are any references to a female gargoyle there.

SnowyThing · Post by **SnowyThing** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 8:09 am

So they produce offspring asexually? Where's the fun in that?
I guess Gargoyles see humans as being 'dirty' because they foreigncate.
Also, IIRC, the TV show 'Gargoyles' did have female Gargoyles.
So, there must be some females somewhere.
Saying that there is none is that their 'breeding' is perfect with no chance of something going wrong... like a Gargoyle developing male or female organs.
What if a Gargoyle breeds with a human?

IgnitusDragonn · Post by **IgnitusDragonn** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 8:18 am

Foreigncate?

SnowyThing · Post by **SnowyThing** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 8:21 am

Another word for SEXING IT UP!

Sorry if I spelt "Foreigncate" wrong. Don't be so picky.

IgnitusDragonn · Post by **IgnitusDragonn** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 8:35 am

You still don't know how to spell it do you.
FORNICATE. It's only "fornication" if they aren't married. According to the Book Of British.

SnowyThing · Post by **SnowyThing** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 8:41 am

Do you remember any Gargoyles being married?

x-bow · Post by **x-bow** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 9:06 am

Foreigncating: the act of speaking a non-native language outside marriage.

IgnitusDragonn · Post by **IgnitusDragonn** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 9:11 am

Foreigncating: the act of 'catting' a foriegner.

SnowyThing · Post by **SnowyThing** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 9:13 am

Foreigncating: Emigrating from your country while speaking a native tongue of where you are travelling to. I.e. Speaking Pirate-ish when you are on your way there in your Silverleaf built by Owen the shipright.

IgnitusDragonn · Post by **IgnitusDragonn** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 9:23 am

I didn't know Owen built Silverleaf. Is that possible? Perhaps you mean't grow. Or perhaps you left out a key ingredient - Owen builds ships not trees.

SnowyThing · Post by **SnowyThing** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 10:00 am

Aurgh.. I meant... He made the SHIP out of silverleaf. I forgot to put the word ship in there.... Pff...

Silverleaf boat, I meant to say.

IgnitusDragonn · Post by **IgnitusDragonn** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 12:17 pm

Oh yeah, I have some problems I never figured out, like how to get those naked people to admit they are citizens of britannia(I've seen the conversations in binary and they do admit to it someway) and how to get Owen to comit suicide.

XxVenomxX · Post by **XxVenomxX** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 1:29 pm

If you want Owen to commit suicide, talk to the ranger who lives to the east of the gypsy's camp. He'll tell you that his brother died in a shipwreck, on a ship made by Owen, and that there's ship plans in his hut, all if Julia is in your party. Show the plans to Julia, and she'll comment on how they're unsound. Then confront Owen.

SB-X · Post by **SB-X** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 3:09 pm

You need Tseramed in your party to reveal who "Mama" and "Papa" really are. Talk to them, then talk to him about them, then talk to them again with him in the party.

SnowyThing · Post by **SnowyThing** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 4:37 pm

Who are Mama and Papa really? Lord British's parents?

IgnitusDragonn · Post by **IgnitusDragonn** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 4:57 pm

They ran from Yew because of the high tax rates, and went naked and pretended to be natives...or something.

Stephan · Post by **Stephan** » Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:30 am

You don't need Tseramed in your party for them to admit it, you just need to talk to him about them. And as for the "gargoyle queen", that was in -Ultima 9-, the same game that had the Avatar ask a gargoyle "What is a gargoyle?" and someone else "What is a paladin?". Mondain's skull still existed, a dagger from Pagan (!) had somehow found its way to the Britain Museum, Dungeon Wrong had turned into an island prison, the codex lenses as small pieces of glass with the wrong colors, the codex shrine as a -cave-... ugh, I could go on forever.

The point is that the designers of U9 obviously didn't care much about the other games in the series, and I for one disregard it almost entirely - whenever there is an inconsistency, I go with a previous Ultima's explanation instead, since they make so much more sense. Gargoyle queens? No thanks.

suraimu · Post by **suraimu** » Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:05 am

Then there's always how that smithy dude in Trinsic easily made a sword out of blackrock without any special equipment, too.

sqrfruit · Post by **sqrfruit** » Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:53 am

One of the books found in U7...

"Gargoyle Like Me
by Darok

Within this work lies a fascinating novel of a human who poses as a Gargoyle to view what lfe is like from the Gargish point of views. The story is a remarkable mix of historical and entertaining facts from encounters with many gargoyles.

A particular emphasis of the work is the importance of the gargoyle family structure. As there is not evidence of gargoyles having a gender, it is odd how close "father" gargoyles maintain a relationship with their (presumably) adopted sons.

The attitudes seems similar to that of how the more intelligent, winged gargoyles treat the wingless. There is an air of condescension, but the feelings of care still exist, as if the wingless were children to be protect and watched over by the winged."

The grammer mistakes and most of the typos are straight from the text. I also recall talking the gargoyle Kallibrus in the Dungeon Destard who says there are no genders in the gargoyle race, and they reproduce differently from humans, but he couldn't explain it. Probably a language limitation. There are no human words for gargoyle "sex".

SnowyThing · Post by **SnowyThing** » Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:22 am

Whelp..... isn't the Guardian a Gargoyle? O.o;

suraimu · Post by **suraimu** » Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:58 am

No, he isn't. He is a muppet.

IgnitusDragonn · Post by **IgnitusDragonn** » Sat Jul 13, 2002 9:39 am

The Guardian is a dragon, not a lizard.

suraimu · Post by **suraimu** » Sun Jul 14, 2002 6:25 am

The Guardian is a muppet, not a puppet.

SnowyThing · Post by **SnowyThing** » Sun Jul 14, 2002 6:57 am

Whatever he is.... he's a big bad red monster that's bent on destroying the Avatar.
P.S. he has teeth like that.... thing from the Neverending Story.. the rock monster or something.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 5:50 am

lol... muppet.

Hacki Dragon · Post by **Hacki Dragon** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 9:09 am

Seeing all this U9 talking, I just can't resist and put a shameless plug into this thread:
Learn why UA sucks

IgnitusDragonn · Post by **IgnitusDragonn** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 9:17 am

You're Hacki? Wow, I really enjoyed your site, it's been useful to me several times, I forget why exactly, but I'm a bit absent minded, anyway, feel free to check out mine:
Http://acauldronofpudding.uni.cc
thanks

Hacki Dragon · Post by **Hacki Dragon** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 9:28 am

Thanks

Your link doesn't work. I get to a "not assigned" page.

SB-X · Post by **SB-X** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 9:35 am

http://cauldronofpudding.uni.cc

IgnitusDragonn · Post by **IgnitusDragonn** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 9:46 am

See there, I didn't even know my own site. Actually that was a ploy to see if any of the rest of you knew it.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 4:58 am

Hacki... (some smart ass stuff)

"Katrina says she is "humbler than anyone else". This statement can never be humble (See also Ultima 6, where Katrina reacts reserved when you ask her if she is the most humble person in New Magincia)! Yes, I know, as we are told later on, Katrina was being slightly influenced by the Column, but I don't think the designers thought about that when they let Katrina say this sentence."

I'll point you to Ultima IV mister. Where you were required to answer the question "Art thou the most humble?" With a big, fat "YES."

Hacki Dragon · Post by **Hacki Dragon** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 5:14 am

Errr.... no, you lost Virtue when you claimed this in U4 :p

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 5:17 am

Here's another...

In SI, Lord British says that the Emps have been killed when the Avatar is in dreamland.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 5:18 am

Oops...

• Where are the Silverleaf trees from Ultima 7? Speaking of this, the developers also forgot about the Emps.
(noted by Dino)

Now, the silverleaf trees, I don;t know, but the Emps were killed whilethe Avatar was in SI. Source: LB in dreamland.

Post by **Colourless** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 6:49 am

With the Emp's gone, there would no longer be a reason for the lumberjack to no longer cut down silverleef trees. So, as the way things work, all the tress were just cut down

-Colourless.

IgnitusDragonn · Post by **IgnitusDragonn** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 7:11 am

Can you really trust L.B in dreamland? The castle was in ruins are we to belive that the actual castle was in ruins as well? I think that was something like, the Avatar's worst nightmare or some bit.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 7:53 am

"Errr.... no, you lost Virtue when you claimed this in U4 :p"

Then why does the official walkthrough tell you to always answer yes to that question?

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 7:54 am

Another one...

"This one's quite serious, presented to you by Evil_Freak Dragon: Who brings the Avatar to Britannia? The Guardian appears on the Avatar's monitor and taunts him, which is what prompts the Avatar to return to the circle of stones, where he finds a red moongate waiting. This would seem to imply that the Guardian brought the Avatar to Britannia. But later on, the Time Lord says that he summoned the moongate which took you to Britannia. But even if he did, it's extremely unlikely that you would have found it if not for the Guardian's appearance. What is going on here?"

The Avatar's Orb of the Moons was flashing, so the Avatar went out ot the circle of stones.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 7:55 am

Disregard the above post.

Hacki Dragon · Post by **Hacki Dragon** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 9:15 am

Now, the silverleaf trees, I don;t know, but the Emps were killed whilethe Avatar was in SI. Source: LB in dreamland.

Oh, forgot about that

But UA doesn't confirm it. It's just ignored. Anyway, I'll remove that Emps part, I think

With the Emp's gone, there would no longer be a reason for the lumberjack to no longer cut down silverleef trees. So, as the way things work, all the tress were just cut down

A nice theory, but as with most points mentioned on my site, I want the *game* to explain these things.

Then why does the official walkthrough tell you to always answer yes to that question?

What walkthrough?