Help finding song 33 in game

[Jaesun]

I am trying to find song #33 in game (if you have the recorded .ogg mp3's it's 33bg.ogg). I spent an hour scouring the map in map editing mode looking at all the "Song Eggs" but this one song I could not find. Anyone know or remember where exactly this song does play in game? It's possible it is music for one of the crystal balls/scenes.

Anyone remember?

(Edit by Dominus: Jaesun meant song 33 not 34 thus the follow ups write about song 34)

[Dominus]

some ideas by wjp:

the least-work-way might be hacking the song egg loader to trigger on song 34, and then do a full map dump
00:24
and then grep through usecode for 34 (I'm assuming usecode can play songs too, but I'm not sure)

the slightly-more-work way would just be hacking a song egg near the start to play song 34

I think you could do the hack with u7- Wizard.

[agentorangeguy]

there were some really awesome songs that were never in the game, but had an ominous feel to them .

[Jaesun]

Thanks Dominus! I edited the egg with U7Wizard and that did it. And my kingdom for an edit button. I meant song 33. bleh.

I was very curious to see if any sysex commands were sent when playing this song while playing U7 in DOSBox because song 33 extracted from MT32MUS.DAT specifically has a track labeled"sysex" (just like song 24 - the Throne Room Music and it DOES have a reveb sysex it sends) and I wondered if it would send any sysex for song 33. It however does not. Interesting...

[Dominus]

I fixed the topic and your first post to say song 33. Unless someone updates us to a new forum, we are stuck with this limited forum with no edit function and no way to reset one's password

Isn't song #33 played when you watch the orrery or so? I don't remember but don't you get some device to see the status of the planets? I think that plays this song.

Keep us posted on your findings with the songs

[Jaesun]

Thanks again Dominus! That was it. It is the music for the Big Orrery. Took me a few minutes to remember how the hell to get in there. heh

And confirmed, it has no sysex sent to it at all which was odd to discover. Perhaps it did at one time, then they removed it later. That whole track labeled "sysex" for song 33 just had me curious.

Interestingly so far only 2 songs in the entire Black Gate game (that I have found so far) actually do get sysex commands (reverb settings/timber programming), and that is the Throne Room (24) Theme and the Ending Music (the video with the guardian and the black gate). Serpent Isle use TONS of custom reverb settings (which it either sends as a bank or sysex), which is proving time consuming as I am trying to make a full collection with sysex of every song in BG/SI with Cakewalk.

Also of note, The "gong/crashing cymbal" sound you first hear in the Ending Video of BG is not sent as a bank, but as a series of sysex commands. I also learned that sound will not play on a later model MT-32 (I own a CM-500 using mode B as well as a first gen MT-32 with no headphone jack). That was sad to discover. But, Serpent Isle (in my opinion) so far sounds much better with the CM-500, as the reverb effects sound much better than on the MT-32. I did a few comparisons on my youtube channel if anyone is interested.

[paulo]

The new mt32 emulator is much better now, are you going to update in the next version?

[Dominus]

Paulo, please stick to the topic, this is about a real mt32

[Jaesun]

Yeah I have an ACTUAL MT-32 (first generation, no headphone jack), that emulator is pure crap and sounds nothing like a real MT-32. I also own a CM-500 (Sound Canvas and MT-32).

That said, I've done a few MT-32 vs CM-500 (Mode B) music comparisons for a few of the serpent isle songs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBq4cfBu0KE
Si Intro Music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R2e3m2XGvM
Batlin's Theme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlOoRgJ6PkA
War theme

I might actually do a CM-500 version of the SI music (that you could use with Exult). *I* personally think the CM-500 sounds better. But I'll finish the MT-32 version first...

[Dominus]

I might actually do a CM-500 version of the SI music (that you could use with Exult). *I* personally think the CM-500 sounds better.

I'd like that a lot.

What about the songs that BG and SI share, are these beefed up in SI as well?

that emulator is pure crap and sounds nothing like a real MT-32

actually development of munt picked up again and supposedly sounds much closer, especially reverb seems to have been fixed.
And sadly in Exult the emu plays the BG intro BETTER than through a real MT32 (as you noticed yourself)

[Jaesun]

Once I capture all the individual sysex of each of the SI exclusive songs, doing a CM-500 version will be a piece of cake. I have 5 done so far. I also want to do a full Sound Canvas version for Pagan, assuming it can also do the custom .ogg mp3's just like Exult? I just love Pagan's Soundtrack.

As for the BG songs that play in SI, I have not noticed any difference yet (in triggering some of the music eggs in Monitor). I had hoped they might include some cool custom reverb settings but that is not the case (that I have seen so far).

I WAS going to mention something about Exult's MIDI when using a real MT-32. Whatever sysex you are sending in the BG is... way off. There is something messed up in the dump you are sending. I could explicitly give you the data of the entire sysex dump that BG sends (from when you start a new game or continue on from the Main Menu. It's basically a dump of Banks 0 to 8). It's WAY less complicated than Serpent Isle's is.

I even tried an experiment in game with Exult. I started a new game, went through all the dialogue then headed for the stables then paused my game. I then loaded up MIDIOX and sent my copy of the BG sysex dump to the MT-32, then continued on playing in Exult. The music all played just fine (at least in Trinsic).

[Jaesun]

ugh. For the Pagan music I meant to type I'd like to do a full set of the original Sound Canvas mp3's for Pentagram, in the same way Exult does for BG/SI.

[Dominus]

I'm not sure Pentagram allows for mp3/ogg pkayback. The whole audio backend of the two got out of sync. First because Exult used SDL-mixer (for playing the oggs) and then again when Colourless cut out SDL-mixer and allows playing the oggs directly.
But still I'm excited about all your recordings.

As for what Exult does wrong, maybe you can open a bug report on SF and fill that with your findings. Hopefully development picks up again some time and someone can fix it....

[Jaesun]

Ahhh damn, sad to hear Pentagram does not have the mp3/ogg playback, as the original music in that game played on an actual Sound Canvas is simply beautiful. It truly deserves such a function (and I would be happy to provide recordings of all mp3's from the game), as I consider the Pagan score one of the best game scores of all time.

And yeah, I'll file a bug report on the SF tracker about the BG MIDI sysex.

[Dominus]

I was about to suggest that you make a feature request in the pentagram tracker but then I received a mail from SF that you just did
Backporting Exult's audio code to pentagram might be easier than I outlined before (since the big difference was Sdl-mixer), but since I'm not much of a coder...
It could als use your soundfont patching for OSX.

Anyway I'll notify Colourless of your Exult sysex investigations, hopefully he has time to look into this.

[Jolyon]

If these are the Pentagram MP3s that I'm thinking they are, I will probably have a nerdgasm if MP3/OGG playback can be implemented in Pentagram.

[Jaesun]

"What about the songs that BG and SI share, are these beefed up in SI as well?"

I have actually found one instance so far of this happening. When you first speak with Lady Yelinda (where you receive the Diamond Necklace), song #31 plays and it does send a sysex bank. I can barely tell what it does. It's probably a slight reverb adjustment, but it is so slight and I could not notice any difference (compared to just playing MIDI song file #31 which has no sysex in it). Played it both on the MT-32 and CM-500.

At the end of that conversation song #30 plays, and it too receives a sysex bank as well as some sysex data. It is barely noticeable (on the MT-32), but *surprise surprise* it actually sound fairly good on the CM-500. It's just a slight difference, but neat nonetheless.

[Dominus]

can't wait for the beefed up pack

[Jaesun]

Need help with just one more song. The Conversation with Gwenno Theme (si06.ogg or MIDI Track 58) anyone possibly remember where this is played in game?

I have tried many different saves in SI and this one is just eluding me.

Thanks!

[Dominus]

I haven't listened yet to it, but have you checked the seance scene when you talj to Gwennos ghost?

[Jaesun]

Ahhh the horribly bugged Seance.... that is why I have never seen it.

I still to this day have never been able to see that event in DOSBox. There is some exact sequence you have to follow, and I have never figured it out. All that happens to me is (when arriving at Moonshade for the first time) head to Mortegro's house after midnight, ask about seance, then only Christopher speaks. The scripted seance even never fires, just the dialogue. I wonder if you have to do this at some other time?

[Dominus]

You have to ask more than once. At least on Exult I got to see the Gwenno sceance...

[Jaesun]

Yeah I remember a while back me or someone else reported this same exact bug in Exult, but Marzo was able to fix it IIRC. Apparently Mortegro can talk to the dead, but can't tell the difference between Noon and Midnight. hehe

[_Olarin]

(spoiler, if anyone cares)

If my memory is correct, the title of Conversation With Gwenno is misleading, because the only time it ever plays is when you find her corpse in the Gwani death temple.

The seance scenes only ever play the seance music as far as I remember.

[Jaesun]

That was it! Thank you Olarin!