A forced Wolf Knight of Monitor

[pak150]

One thing that always bothered me about SI is that you always ended up being a Wolf after the Knight's Test. I think an interesting mod would require the Avatar to answer some questions early in the game (which could also change his/her stats, similar to U6), and this would determine whether you would be a wolf, bear, or leopard. I suppose this would also require changing the tattoo art. Would something like this be possible?

[Wizardry Dragon]

I intend on changing that in Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands. You can join any of them, and you will get both plot quests and side quests from each Clan.

In fact, the guilds system that I'm developing now already has the framework for a lot of this in place, and is the SI portion of it is built towards that specific end.

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Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

[pak150]

That sounds very suave, I'm looking forward to it!

[Neutronium Dragon]

I think that the game-logic of the original is that being in the wolf clan gave you the most leeway to deal with the other situations. If you ended up as a leopard, for example, then it's not unlikely that Marsten would've ordered you to something that would keep you away from the investigations, etc.

Neutronium Dragon

[DarkAvatar]

I agree about the leopards.... Marsten would have given the Avatar several tasks... then when he thinks he's worthy enough to try and use the avatar to help Him and Spektor do what they wanted to do...

[pak150]

That's a fair point. I can't remember exactly, but if you talk to Marsten after he'd been arrested, didn't he lambast all three factions, including the leopards? If that's the case, then I don't think becoming a leopard would be a huge deal, because Marsten considered himself to be above the rest of the pack (no pun intended).

me

[Wizardry Dragon]

I think the Leopards definetely could be an opening in an 'evil' SI plotline.

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Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

[pak150]

That would be fun - it could also be some sort of political intrigue plotline. Cantra's mother is a leopard, and perhaps she could be used to expose Marsten's schemes and restore some sort of glory to the leopards.

[WWWWolf]

A random thought:

Is your average Avatar strong enough to carry the carcasses of other animals to the town?

Wolves are pretty heavy already...

(Or is this another nitpick? Could *any* of the other characters realistically carry their animals to the town? =)

Sorry, I need more coffee...

[Wizardry Dragon]

You're already walking around in 80 pound platemail...

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Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

[WWWWolf]

Plate mails are fine-tuned protection devices that are designed to impede the wearer's movement as little as possible, and surprisingly agile considering their weight.

Dead bears, on the other hand, are a huge bunch of really uncooperative meat.

[Wizardry Dragon]

Dude, it doesn't matter if they impede your movement, you're STILL carrying 80 pounds of platemail.

Try a suit and see how quickly you move.

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Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer,
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

[Neutronium Dragon]

Someone in properly-fitted platemail moves almost as fast as they would out of it - *if* they're used to/conditioned to it (which we can reasonably assume the Avatar and his companions to be).

Neutronium Dragon

[WWWWolf]

Wikipedia says the brown bears weigh around 130–700 kg. It further says men's weightlifting records are around 300-500 kg, and even then you don't see those people carrying those things for a very long distance, now do you? =)

Now then there's also the issue of bulk and trying to raise a bear carcass with nothing but your bare hands...

My point is: Carrying a wolf to the town all by yourself is borderline believable - difficult, but not impossible for people like the Avatar. Leopard might be in realms of possibility too. But a bear would take several people to carry it to the town.

[Garrett]

Well that's what you've got your party for!

But yes, I was always disappointed by that. It makes story sense, but being a different clan each time would have been neat.

[artaxerxes]

maybe you could implement the cart in SI so you can transport it back to Monitor!

Or make the bear "too heavy" if you try to carry and when you come back to Monitor a team of Pikemen are sent to go pick it up.

Artaxerxes

[marzo]

You're already walking around in 80 pound platemail...

Just a small objection: according to a person I know -- Dan Howard (don't suppose anyone here knows him), which is an expert on medieval metallurgy and war gear -- only tournament plate armor was that heavy -- and the reason it was that heavy was to prevent accidental injuries. An actual fighting plate, used in battlefields, could weigh as low as 45 pounds and still leave the knight virtually impervious to most weapons of the time.

Interestingly enough, that 45-pound figure is the same value quoted in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_mail (although Dan was already stating that years before Wikipedia even existed).

[pak150]

Why not just skin the bear in the knight's test and take the hide/meat home with you...

[artaxerxes]

that's Cellia's job. When you come back to Monitor, you talk to her and she leaves to Knight's test to skin that bear. That too would justify the 24 hours delay she imposes.

Artaxerxes

[Wizardry Dragon]

Marzo - the weight of the platemail was something that increased over the middle ages, it ultimately became soe heavy and cumbersome that it was not effective in combat. 80 pounds is the mean of the different weights of this type of armor.

It's useful to not that the prevalent armor in the middle ages was chainmail for just that kind of reason. You could wear leather and chainmail both and still have less weight and more mobility than plate.

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Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

[TdI]

Well, regardles of how much a brown bear weighs in real life, I just went into a bear killing spree south of Moonshade and found that bear corpses weigh 10 stones. So no real problem here.

[Dominus]

Problem solved! LOL

[Neutronium Dragon]

So in Ultima-land, by bear weight, 1 stone = ~40 kg? And the untrained Avatar can carry 18 worth, to say nothing of everyone else's Strength stats...

Methinks that Silver Serpent Venom is being used more widely than previously thought.

Neutronium Dragon

[marzo]

Marzo - the weight of the platemail was something that increased over the middle ages, it ultimately became soe heavy and cumbersome that it was not effective in combat.

Those were the 'ceremonial' or 'tournament' plates, not battlefield plates.

[/quote]It's useful to not that the prevalent armor in the middle ages was chainmail for just that kind of reason.[/quote]
Nope; it had to do with the fact that a well-fitted suit of plate cost more than any common soldier could gather in his entire lifetime. There was a reason only nobles (e.g., knights) wore plate IRL

[Wizardry Dragon]

TdI - depends on whether you ask us or the Serpent Isle Greenpeace group ^_~

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Peter M Dodge aka Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer
Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

[Daemongar]

Did anyone mention that a lot of the armor in SI and U7 are *magical*? That the same magic that makes it deflect blows makes it lighter or something? I think it was a D&D convention that magical armor was lighter than normal armor, which may have had a background in Frodo's mithril shirt being as light as a normal shirt.

Either way, the Avatar could simply gut the bear, keeping the hide and meat, but getting rid of the unessentials - the stomach, colon, wang, lungs, most of the blood. That would greatly reduce the weight to a manageable size. Just a thought.

[Neutronium Dragon]

"Say, there's a bloodstained butcher carrying a hacked-apart carcass approaching the gate..."

"Oh, not to worry. It's either a knight who's completed his test or one who's slaughtered a fellow to collect the cremation bounty. Let him on in..."

Neutronium Dragon