The original plot of SI

[Grimlock Dragon]

Firstly, I would like to say that the Exult team is doing a great job!

I'm sure that there has already been some discussion about this, but I haven't seen, nor heard the comments. So, I'll ask the question... Has anyone given thought to changing SI to what the original plot was supposed to be? Everybody wasn't supposed to die in the end. The programmers were forced to kill everybody due to time constraints. Evidence of this original plot is spread throughout SI. I know a few things that were supposed to be implemented, but does anyone know how to contact the original author of the story line?

Once again, KOODOES to the Exult team. There's this great game (for gnostalgia's sake) and the King Quest 1 remake from Tierra that I'm watching (Yahoooo!).

Regards,

Grimlock Dragon

[Sparky32]

Really? well I thought that the sudden death of everyone was a bit out of whack - but yes this has been discussed and the program "Exult Studio" is being devoloped to make totally new games using the Ultima 7 Engine. In terms of changing the Serpent Isle Story the Exult team would have to make Ultima 7 The Black Gate and Serpent Isle 100% (or close to) flawless. That means little or no bugs. So until that is done nothing drastic such as changing the plot can be done.

Cheers.

[Dantec Dragon]

If you look in the UDIC ftp downloads area under interviews, you will find a quite extensive one with Warren Spector that mainly covers Serpent Isle. Theres some information there about how the plot was supposed to go, and how they ended up having to kill everybody because of time constraints.

-Dantec Dragon

[ToasterThief]

The Original Si Plot was a bit more interesting.

1. Cantra (cured) and one of the Magelings were supposed to join you.
2. The banes didn't kill off the population of SI-rather, they took over each of the cities. and established Anti-Rules based on their chaotic nature. That's why each of the banes attacked specific cities. Mad Iolo in Moonshade, the town of Knowledge and reason. Anti-Dupre in the town of Courage, etc.
The Usecode has some of the Rules that the Banes put into place when they took over.
3. Cat Isle was apparently supposed to be a bit more involved somehow...
4. When you plant the Silver Seed AFTER the banes are released, Karnax says it may rejuvinate the Island.
5. Frigidazzi's affair with the Avatar had a bit more backstory (some more letters written, etc.)
6. There is another unfinished dungeon in Skullcrusher mountains.

[ToasterThief]

Sorry, mixed up the Banes there. SHAMINO was supposed to go to Moonshade and Torture the Mages, While Iolo went to Fawn and played cruel insane tricks on the Beautiful people. Notice how Fawn was really oddly big for such a small plot point?

Also...

The Ratmen seem to have such a minor part, but were apparently supposed to be have a larger role (involving a leader and the gong)
Harna never acknoweldges the destruction of SI (Usecode error)
Early in development, they were considering finally giving the Avatar Captain Hawk's ship. this was apparently scrapped as they needed all the space in the sea for dungeons.

[Andy]

Yes, Warren Spector (in that old interview) mentioned a 3 inch stack of plot points. Very interesting. The entire skripting of the plot must be somewhere. I'd really like to know everything that they intended.

Andy a.k.a. Grimlock Dragon

[Dominus]

I heard about those Ratmen as well and I believe that it was mentioned along with some plot involving the Nagas in SI (the women that are half snake).

Andy: the entire scripting of the plot... well the source code of the Ultima7 are supposed to be lost and many Ultima fans tried to get a hold of it anyway (there was talk in the UDIC newsgroup of a chance of getting it around the time that U9 was published but then the whole U9 support team was scraped so fast that it didn´t work - mind you those were rumors). And also in the game itself there isn´t much left in the usecode that gets you very far on the quest for the missing plot.
So it must/should be in the original source code or was even just discarded
We can only speculate

[Andy]

Also, in addition to the fragments of the cut plot, I've heard mention that Origin had a Ratman portrait in one of its arkives. So apparently, at least one Ratman was able to talk.

I have a theory about Cat Isle. In U7: BG, and UW 2, both of them have Kilrathi cameos in them. I think that the Kilrathi were ment to be created by one of the choas sientists. The cat creature in The Silver Seed I consider evidence of this. They already had his artwork created, and desided to use it in that maze.... (theory).

Also, there had to be something more to the Naga. If they were inteligent enough to build a temple, then they probably were in tended to have some larger part than one of a captured non-speaking servant girl (at Frigidazi's).

Also there's the ruins on the North Part of Monk Isle.

This is all drawn on a foggy memory. It's been a bit since I've played SI. I hope to rectify that sometime soon.

Andy a.k.a. Grimlock Dragon

[Colourless]

I see that Dupre's role hasn't been mention yet.

Anyway, as known Dupre become the Bane of Wantonness and takes over monitor. From what I know of the original plot he turns all of the Monitorians into the animal that they are. After the Bane is 'killed' they all return back to normal again.

[XxVenomxX]

I thought Frigidazzi's servant girl was a Goblin? There was a captured Naga in Rotoluncia's (sp?) home, in a cage in her room though... Not to mention that blasted one that lives under Pistachio's house. Yes yes, I know its Gustacio but I just like calling him Pistachio (renamed him that with the F2 menu, lol)

[ToasterThief]

***

I have found an interesting trick using Exult to find some lost dialogue. If you do not WALK into the destroyed towns, but hackmove the Avatar (without actually moving) then you can sometimes come across the inhabitants BEFORE their "Death" Eggs are activated. Turning on Egg viewer will reveal that they're standing on the eggs; if you walk towards them, they die a screenlength away. But if you hackmove close to them, they do not die. (and if you click the egg the suddenly keel over.)

I had some fun with this-here's the people who have different dialogue after the banes are released.

Ensorscorio-He apparently makes it back to Moonshade and Shamino declares him the greatest mage.
Capt. Hawk-He gives you his ship, then dies.
Ernesto-Talks about how Shamino is the new Magelord. You can get this dialogue without cheating.
Flindo (I think)-Talks about how Shamino made Fedibiblio a begger on the street.
The Mapmaker in Fawn has lots of Dialogue about Mad Iolo.
And the Healer in Fawn has a dialogue Option, but the game hangs when you try it.

I couldn't find anything else; not Frigidazzi, the Gwani, Fedibiblo, Anyone else in Fawn, or anyone in Monitor. Although I could not find Caladin.

*

If you look through the USECODE you can find some lost dialogue relating to the Banes' attacks.

Each of the Monitor clans is turned to a respective animal. Strangely, Shmed (?!) has a line "I was a wolf! I could see my reflection!"

Notice that the animals will attack the Goblins if you walk through Monitor. Looks like the coding was half there.

Looking at Kalen's Fawn Dialogue (?!)- Talks about how Mad Iolo may reward him if he kills the Avatar (didn't you kill him already when he tried for Batlin the first time?)

The Rangers in Moonshade also are supposed to react to a "Certificate of Crime" and Ernesto takes pride in the new order which has no Mundanes or Mages.

And I heard on Dejanews a long time ago that once you free Monitor, that was when you can have a sculpture made for some reason.


The Exult Team has done a great job in breathing some life into this old classic. This was a fun couple of days, going through Britannia again.

[Andy]

All of this is very nice, and probably would have broadened the scope of the game x2 at least. Barring getting the source code, someone needs to sit down with a cup of coffee, and interview the author(s) of the plot/script. SI was obviously a labor of love. If anyone would remember what was supposed to go on, it would be the author of the plot/script. Who knows, maybe the writer might still have the actual text that he had written. (Ya, I know wishful thinking).

Andy a.k.a Grimlock Dragon

[Dominus]

Warren Spector would be the man to interview then!

[drcode]

Yes, that's cool that you figured that out. I wonder how much is playable if you delete those eggs that cause everyone to die. It's easy to do: Just put the mouse over the egg and press ctrl-D.

BTW, we've heard from several of the BG developers (Ken Demarest, Jeff Wilson, Mike McShafley), but nobody from the SI team. It would be great to finish the game the way that it was intended. Although, it really would require EA's approval to be legal.

[Colourless]

As far as I know, the sculpture thing is true. Andre would make a bust of you. I hear that this bust had something to do with the chaos wall of lights, but I don't know exactly what.

-Colourless Dragon

[Andy]

I'm sure that Warren Specter would be a good person to contact, but I can't find his email to contact him. I know he works for Ion Storm, which has since been bought out buy Eidos....

Andy a.k.a. Grimlock Dragon

[Colourless]

I know his email address.

-Colourless Dragon.

[Andy]

Well Colourless, would you care to do the honors, or would you like me too? (Rhetorical question) :0)

Andy a.k.a. Grimlock Dragon

[Andy]

I would also like to know if Warren Spector was the actual writer, or did he just say, "this is the way I want it to go" to a writer. The interview that he did, said that he designed the plot, but not necessarily that he wrote all the dialog.... If that's the case, then we need to be looking for the writer(s) also.

Ah well,

Andy a.k.a. Grimlock Dragon