Not getting fully dark

WJH · Post by **WJH** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:09 pm

I mentioned this in another thread, but didn't want to muck it up with possibly off-topic images. I've been playing around with trying to make it dark, but just can't do it. Here are two images of me deep in the crypts of Monitor. All sconces have been doused (they are far away anyway) and it's night.

Here's the lighting with a light source. Full brightness like it should.

Here's with the light source put away. Different, darker shade, but nothing like dark. The same result happens no matter where I go. :/

Any ideas about what is going on? Thanks!

Post by **Dominus** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:46 pm

Can you give the coordinates?

WJH · Post by **WJH** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:25 pm

It's around 0630, 2483

Post by **Dominus** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:50 pm

are you really sure there is nothing you left on the floor somewhere? Can you send me your savegame?
I just tested at this spot and it's completely dark unless one of the companion has a fire sword in the hand and it looks like your screenshot.

WJH · Post by **WJH** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:04 pm

Sure I'll send a savegame from that point.

I've also gone to other places I know should be dark, but have never travelled to in the course this play through yet...the abandoned gwani cave, out to sea on the ice barge, dungeons, the middle of the frozen north...all produce the same result for me.

Post by **Dominus** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:13 pm

Yes, it‘s odd. I have no clue what’s going on with your save, it behaves as bad for me.
Did you just play or did you mess with cheats and other stuff on the cheat screen?

WJH · Post by **WJH** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:14 am

I do play around with the cheat screen, but I didn't on this play through until after I had already done the Monitor and Fawn quest lines. I first noticed the darkness issue on my way to the goblin camp, however. I did play around a ton with the different scalers and resolutions, but that's never affected things in the past for me.

I tried a new game just now, and it behaves as it should, even if I mess around on the cheat screen. I suppose if I want it to be dark, I'll just have to start a new game. Weird!

I appreciate your looking into it!

Knight Captain · Post by **Knight Captain** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:38 am

Exult bases a few things on the user's video resolution settings. Using the Point scaler at 0632, 2548, and a resolution of 1920x1200, I can recreate this:

x2 and x3 shows a dark cave, but playing on x1 shows daylight.

You can see similar in the NW corner of Furnace Park. The lava shape 177 is both On Fire and a Light Source, so even though it is very far away, on x1 Point scaler it is on screen and thus lights up everything.

Modern enhancement might be to get the distance between the Avatar and the light source, and lighten the screen the closer the distance.

Post by **Dominus** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:49 am

KC, the problem is something else. It just stays in that low light level everywhere with that save, while if I load another game it gets properly dark, without changing the resolution.
Do you know if there is a global flag that could influence this? It‘s the only idea left

Knight Captain · Post by **Knight Captain** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:32 pm

Can you send me the saved game?

The light level is not set by global flag. There are intrinsics that can control it, but should change as the latest setting overwrites the last. Some are set by number of ticks. Even the Light (666 ticks) and Great Light (10,000 ticks) spells wear off. I'd be curious here if they do.

The Helm of Light does not use global flags, just READY and UNREADY events to add/subtract light. It's one of the few special Silver Seed items that do not have global flags.

Knight Captain · Post by **Knight Captain** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:44 am

Did you die on a boat, turtle, or other barge? The Avatar's NPC flag 10 is set, and it shouldn't be.

WJH · Post by **WJH** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:44 pm

I'm certain that I never died on a boat, turtle, or barge. Could anything else have set the flag?

Knight Captain · Post by **Knight Captain** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:08 am

Found another odd spot. In the Goblin caves there's the two staircases down. The one with headlesses, and skeleton corpses, and gems has light on the left side of the room. This is coming from lit torches in the Sleeping Bull underground area, which it shouldn't be.

I'm using an old version of Exult to test this, but it should still be accurate.

0468, 1646 is the spot.

Knight Captain · Post by **Knight Captain** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:09 am

^ And yes, turning off the wall scones by the acid slugs changes the light off.

WJH, I don't believe so, but haven't checked the Usecode yet. NPC Flag 10 should not be used in SI, since there's an SI-only flag listed for the same.

Knight Captain · Post by **Knight Captain** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:52 pm

NPC Flag 10 is in the game. So I'm not sure why it is still set though.

WJH · Post by **WJH** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:07 pm

I was in the process of a normal play through, and had made it to Monk Isle (also completing Silver Seed quest line). I wasn't getting cute with the cheat menu or teleporting, so I can't think of what I might have done to screw that flag up.

Unsetting the flag does not change the issue with the lighting. If I start a new game, all lighting seems fine, however. Must I restart (not a big deal), or is it possible to fix the lighting in my current game?

Knight Captain · Post by **Knight Captain** » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:13 am

Does setting off a Light spell change anything?

I'm at a total loss to explain this.

WJH · Post by **WJH** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:14 pm

The light spell doesn't doesn't do a thing.

I went through my old saved games, and see that light/dark was working properly when I went to the Sleeping Bull, after the Monitor banquet, but then went screwy sometime shortly after that.

I'm fairly certain that I hadn't touched the cheat menu or teleport at that point yet.

Post by **drcode** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:40 pm

If you haven't already, you could submit this as a bug and I could take a look.

Knight Captain · Post by **Knight Captain** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:37 am

I've run into this now myself. After being resurrected by the Monks and returned to Monitor's crop field, the darkness in caves no longer happens. The heat in Furnace also does not bother the party.

Post by **Dominus** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:22 am

Oh cool, can you reproduce it or was it dependent on where you died (Furnace?)?

WJH · Post by **WJH** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:45 pm

The Furnace heat doesn't trigger in my save game that also has the light issue. I hadn't been back to that point in the story yet to notice that.

Knight Captain · Post by **Knight Captain** » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:49 pm

Possibly unrelated issue, but when I start a new game, play a bit, and then reload the Quick Save (back to the start) the time does not seem to get reset to 6AM.

Knight Captain · Post by **Knight Captain** » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:53 pm

In trying to recreate this, I have not had any luck while not using any F3 map teleporter cheating. I suspect this may be the reason why I have yet to reproduce this bug.

At Furnace's entrance at night, I see outside is dark, and inside the shape for outside light at the cave entrance is there still. It should hide at night, but does not appear to have the relevant nocturnal egg, function 0x744. Is this something that can be patched in via the engine (added the way a few shapes are removed) or something that should be done via mod?

The way local light sources work is kind of odd, though seems to be authentic. Candles and lava seem to just instantly change the palette, rather than brightening / darkening as the Avatar approaches them.

Knight Captain · Post by **Knight Captain** » Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:05 am

In Olon's house, for example, the small lantern on the desk lights up several chunks beyond the house, even if the door is closed. That's way too much.

William55 · Post by **William55** » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:01 pm

Apologies in advance if resurrecting such an old thread is poor form, but on my most recent play through, it has started happening again.

I can add an observation this time around. I can use a serpent gate, and say, return to Moonshade at night. Upon arrival, I get the correct type of night time light. But the moment I move, open inventory, or anything else I try, the light changes back to that light spell looking type of light.

I will happily keep playing with this new light reality if I have to, but I'd like to figure out how to bring the right kind of night time light back!

Thanks in advance!

Knight Captain · Post by **Knight Captain** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:02 am

Thanks for finding the same topic.

I tried to recreate this briefly but could not.

William55 · Post by **William55** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:08 am

I went through my save games to figure out when this is happening. I can reliably reproduce the lighting effects after looking into Harna's crystal ball, right after the Monitor banquet. For me, night time and cave lighting changes after that.

Post by **Dominus** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:33 am

That's helpful!

William55 · Post by **William55** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:13 pm

Okay, so if you look in the crystal ball before the banquet, the lighting is fine. It seems to require the Cantra/Batlin cutscene to trigger.

I cheated my way around a bit too, here's what I've learned:

The Batlin in Spinebreaker cutscene also triggers the effect. I used the lens in the Temple of Emotion for that.

Erstam's telescope to locate the Magebane does not trigger it.

Spying on the Banes of Chaos using the lens in the Temple of Enthusiasm does not trigger it.

Normal telescope use, where it cycles through the various locations (Zhelkas in the Furnace, The Sleeping Bull, Erstam's house, etc.), doesn't trigger it.

So, as usual, Batlin is to blame!

Post by **Dominus** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:08 pm

Really much appreciated, this really narrows it down.
Could you add a savegame just before that, so we can easily examine what is happening?

William55 · Post by **William55** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:51 pm

Sure thing. What's my best bet for getting that to you?

Post by **Dominus** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:15 pm

domiman on gmail

William55 · Post by **William55** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:42 pm

Done!

Post by **Dominus** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:50 pm

Thanks I got it, I'll test a bit tomorrow.
Anyone else interested, the savegame is at https://www.dropbox.com/s/8qfjuvgfhq6wm ... i.sav?dl=0

Post by **Dominus** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:45 pm

ok, At least with these instructions and a savegame I can easily reproduce it (even with another one I have).
There is weird lighting stuff going on with the Batlin/Cantra scene, for an instant the light flashes to torch lit light, then dark and just before it ends it flashes again in torch lit light and stays for that when the scene ends. Then her mother speaks to you and the lighting changes to bright daylight. but when you teleport to a previous pitch dark place (e.g. 1498,2040) it stays in the torch lit light.

Weird

Got to test the original, if that shows this behavior, too

Post by **Dominus** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:17 pm

yeah, this opens a completely different can of worms...
so the lighting should be the eerie blueish/grayish one. That often gets replaced in the above description when I wrote torch lit light.
But the fade to dark is wrong and the spells they use is wrong (it used to be better a while ago).
And yes, in the original, the lighting is reset properly after the scene.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4rgzdgrbxa34a ... 02.u7?dl=0 <- savegame of the original game if anyone cares to try

filed at https://sourceforge.net/p/exult/bugs/2051/

Post by **Dominus** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:51 pm

So, I might have a fix but need someone else to look over it.
Sometimes the game sets ambient light which is eventually followed by an intrinsic "set_time_palette" which should reset the lighting (which it does in many cases). BUT it had no case to reset the ambient_light palette...

Robiro · Post by **Robiro** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:27 am

I have the same problem. Is any fix for a save game? I'm already on Moonshade

Post by **Dominus** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:11 pm

No, I don't see how to fix this in a savegame, yet

William55 · Post by **William55** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:45 pm

I see there is a new snapshot for MacOS. Would I need to start a new game to try it, or can I load up that save game?

Post by **Dominus** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:47 pm

There is not yet a fix in the code.
The can of worms that this opened needs to be addressed.
Mainly that the ambient light is not working properly.

William55 · Post by **William55** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:07 pm

Oh, okay!

Robiro · Post by **Robiro** » Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:57 am

I will keep waiting forma a fix. Thanks!

Post by **Dominus** » Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:59 pm

So I did enter a fix for the fallout we have of not implementing the intrinsic ambient_light correctly.
This is in the Mac snapshot, but not yet in a Windows snapshot as those are halted at the moment.
BUT it doesn't fix your savegames

William55 · Post by **William55** » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:09 am

I started up a new game with the latest Mac snapshot, and there appears to be a worse problem (to my eyes at least).

After the cutscene, and only after the cutscene, certain things start to blink on and off with each movement or mouse click. It really bugs my eyes and I couldn't look at it long without needing to look away, so I won't describe it very well. But, the cursor and the Avatar blink on and off, and the screen scrolls in a very choppy way, especially diagonally. Walking around very far almost gives me the feeling of motion sickness. Conversation portraits blink off and on with each mouse click too.

Once this effect happens on a new game, it carries over to all save games. All is normal in the Black Gate.

I'm sorry this has turned out to be a pain in the butt!

Post by **Dominus** » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:58 am

Hmm, Marzo landed a better bugfix and I'll upload a new Mac build later. Maybe that helps. Curiosly, I don't get these effects ;(

Post by **Dominus** » Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:41 am

the mac version is updated now.
If it still happens, can you tell me what your video settings are (scaler, resolution, game size, fullscreen?)

And no need to be sorry. Your bug report was great. Everything came together through this:
- in 2009 Marzo added the ambient light intrinsic but didn't know where it gets triggered.
- a couple of months ago, I fixed the light effect of the light spell (same as the ambient light uses).
- your report showed us exactly where ambient light was used (at least one place)
-> Marzo was able to do the light effect correctly for ambient light
-> win

William55 · Post by **William55** » Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:06 pm

It works!

And, not only does it work from a new game, but I watched the Batlin in Spinebreaker cutscene on a save game that already had the Batlin/Cantra lighting bug triggered...everything went back to normal!

Thanks...you guys are awesome! This makes quarantine a lot more fun.

Robiro · Post by **Robiro** » Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:35 pm

It's great that it works in saved games! Any chance of updating the Windows version?