I was wondering: how do fans feel nowadays about Ultima

Sergorn · Post by **Sergorn** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:45 pm

Between going with Ultima playthrough (now deep in Ultima IV) and obviously leading my Ultima Return project, I'm obviously still very attached to the Ultima series, to a point that probably borders on insanity

It kind of makes me wonder about other fans though - I mean Ultima basically ended ten years ago, and for some it hadn't produced anything worthwile since 1993 anyway... which means quite a long time.

So how do you guys and gals regard Ultima today: just as some fond memories of old gaming, or something very special you're still passionate about and would like to revisit some day?

What really make Ultima special to you guys, what would you want to find in a modern Ultima game to make it worth you while?

-Sergorn

Azul · Post by **Azul** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:14 pm

Ultima VII is probably one of my favourite games of all time. I remember being strapped for cash when the Ultima VII collection came out so I traded a friend D&D DM lessons so that he would give me the cash

I remember laughing my butt off at the Star Trek themed Serpent's Hold... and also weeping with joy at the large pile of goodies kicking around there. I also remember having a personal goal of killing every single npc and depositing their corpse in the museum in Britain. Needless to say... that museum would have had a terrible smell to it after my rampage through the major cities. I also remember how happy I was when I found the flying carpet. I loaded it up with extra chairs that I stole and through a bunch of treasure chests down the middle to hold all of my gear and gold from plundering the mint.

_Olarin · Post by **_Olarin** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:20 am

I would imagine the responses you'll get from this particular forum would be biased towards people who still replay Ultima games from time to time (since Exult is all about, y'know, being able to still play Ultima VII) and biased towards the elements that distinguish Ultima VII (immersiveness, interactivity, subtlety, decently written dialogue, , ) being the most important elements of an Ultima.

I would also say that there's something about the artwork and overall visual presentation of Ultima VII that really draws me in and keeps me coming back (and I should note that - setting aside all its thoroughly-discussed faults in other areas - Ascension maintains and improves upon these particular elements quite well, I think). It's realistic enough to be immersive and allow some suspsension of disbelief, but still colorful enough (both literally and figuratively) to be really engaging and pleasant to look at. That particular visual approach is a good deal of what makes the world so much fun to just run around in and look at (aside from, in VII, the interactivity and sheer volume of content), long after you've exhausted the plot. Myst, I think, is a similar example of that compelling visual style. (Compare to any number of more modern games which, by all objective measures, have "better" graphics, but have a colour palette consisting of brown, brown, grey, and brown...) Sometimes Ascension is worth firing up just to explore the more interesting parts of the wilderness, admire the scenery (just don't get too close to the billboard-bushes), and sit and listen to the beautiful music, and I really wish I could have a game as sophisticated as Ultima VII or Ultima Underworld in an engine like Ascension.

Post by **Dominus** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:21 am

I agree with Olarin...

And curiosly, even though I love Ultima, I haven't tried ANY of the recreation projects. Something just doesn't make them interesting for me. I even picked up Dungeon Siege once in a bargain bin just to be able to play Lazarus (if I'm not mistaken that one needs it) but still haven't tried it...

Incriptus · Post by **Incriptus** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:03 pm

Origin we create worlds.
Other companies have learned to create worlds too.
But what they forgot to do is fill those worlds with people & wonder

The greatest strength of an Ultima is the interaction with the world. Ultima 5 & 7 are what really shine. You can spend hours reading the dialog in that game. When you walk into a town you aren't greated by a 100 blank stares and 5 quest boxes. You actually talk to [the majority] of people as if they had lives. It is amazing to play in a world where everything has a personality.

Beryllium · Post by **Beryllium** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:09 pm

The Ultimas were iconic in their time. They introduced a simulation of an external world, with many NPCs with daily schedules and a large open map that permitted nonlinear gaming.

These days such things are taken for granted. Games such as Oblivion and Fallout are their legacy.

TDI · Post by **TDI** » Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:43 am

I still frequent this forum after, I don't know... 7, 8, 9 years? So I'm pretty certain that Ultima is somehow wired to my brain.

And I believe this is because Ultima VII truly is a magical game. In my opinion it is the best game ever made. And one of the reasons why it is so good is that it feels like much more than just a game. It feels like a real, self contained world inside your computer.

This sounds like a fanboy speaking, which is partly true of course. But if you think about it for a while, there are hard facts why Ultima VII is so awesome; it's a game that is almost twenty years old now but it has features that are still unmatched by any other game. There simply hasn't been any other game out there in twenty years where the citizens of a town go to the pub in the evening, get food placed on their plates by bartenders, the food actually gets eaten, bartenders rush from the kitchen to the tables taking orders, and so on.
The atmosphere created by the liveliness in Ultima VII is unique in the entire computer game world. And there are so many other examples of this...tailors on the spinning weel and cutting cloth, bakers baking bread, the mages brewing potions and reading books, fighters training on dummies, archers shooting at archery targets, miners chopping away at ores, people opening and closing windows depending on daytime, people making their beds, people going to church -to sleep -to work, birds flying about, flies buzzing in the swamp, wildlife in the forests, the ability to buy and sail ships, drive carts, companions, unique NPCs with unique dialog, daily NPC schedules, real "3D" multi-story buildings, weather effects, day/night cycle, seamless world without loading times, flying carpet... the list goes on.
And all of this was playable with a simple mouse interface.

If you think about it, it's truly amazing that in 18 years, no other game has managed to reach this quality in terms of how a virtual game world should feel like. Playing U7 still is a unique game experience.

As long as it remains this way, I guess I'll keep replaying Ultima VII every couple of years. It still has more entertainment value to me than 80% of new games.

And yes, I am a fanboy. But anything else than unquestioning devotion would not be virtuous. U7 deserves it.

Korneluk · Post by **Korneluk** » Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:43 am

Serpent Isle was the first for me and I was amazed, enchanted, in love. It must have been just out and I hadn't heard of Ultima but had just got my first computer, a 386 and thought the screen shots looked pretty cool. "Giant turtle, some kinda dungeon. D&D for 1." I skipped alot of school and spent so much time with the game, carefully looking into every corner, trying to track down every scrap of a clue. I spent so damn long searching for the pit of daemons that Silverpate was consigned to....as well as alot of other fruitless rumor chasing. I remember setting up a base in the Blue boar and hording all kinds of stuff. the world was rich and engaging and I was sad to leave it behind...especially when the next stop was PAGAN!

Still, I've played 1 through 9 plus a few months of online but disliked the lack of involved story. Every few years I've went back to play U7, part I and II.
Anyways.....What would I want in a modern ultima game for it to be worthwhile? That same living world of course. I don't need to see the avatar again, it could be new characters, but I'd like for the stories to be more layered somehow, I like the idea of time being a factor for pushing the plot, to add to the feeling that the world is turning, flat as a pancake or not. Of course, this might hamper the carefree exploration, but I am sure such a device could be worked into the game.

Imagine a time line where E&A made there appearances at the various ports every few days and you'd be able to maybe meet them. If you alert them to your suspicions than you'll be beset by alot of angry fellowship types, their reactions and other plot points altered. You might confront them and do battle, but of course there high levels would have you chased away. Would the game be such that after, say, 20 days the black gate is complete? I am sure the programing of games where the plots have many more possible branches is tricky, but that's what would make the game evolve I reckon.
Still, it's not gonna be Origin. Too bad electronic arts owns the Ultima name.

Andrea B Previtera · Post by **Andrea B Previtera** » Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:24 am

Sticking to the most interesting part of Seregorn's question, and the not-so-discussed one until today, too - I think that there would definitely be a niche for a new Ultima title today.

RPG players have a very particular characteristic: they never age. We may quit playing with toys when we age beyond 10-12, we may quit playing action videogames when we move into our thirties or so, but will we stop playing RPGs? Never. So there are hundred thousands of people who have the fondest memories about Ultima out there, and would instantaneously buy/play a new game. And who didn't directly live the days of Ultima, but still loves RPGs, surely have been talked about the saga again and again by someone else, reading about it on the internet and so on.

Paradoxally, when Origin worked on games like Ultima 7, or Wing Commander too - they were probably literally struggling to make Lord British's vision come true: 20 years ago there weren't all the coding talents there are today, great coders were rare and literally had to be "stolen" from other companies. Also, technologies - even the simplest ones - had to be invented or reimplemented for specifical purposes, and that was a whole layer of obstacles between that "vision" and what would actually become of it. Today such problems are gone: there are excellent coders everywhere, and if you're not going for the photorealistic eye candy stuff of games like Crysis - all the technology and codebase you need is already there, mature - well documented - and hardware supported.

So what would it take? The partecipation of at least Lord British and Warren Spector for that "Ultima taste", a concession from EA (probably at a consistent but sustainable monetary expense), and a sparkle of courage. The outcome could be, once again, a RPG milestone for the decaed to come, something to compare againist. Or, at least, something that finally contains all those elements that we can't see to get back ALL IN ONE SINGLE GAME since the days of Ultima 7: the well implemented NPC schedules, a seamless world, full interaction with every part of it, and a party (please try to name one single title that have them all)

Just a wish in case it happens: please please please no remakes. No revisitations. Give us some postguardian stuff

Wizardry Dragon · Post by **Wizardry Dragon** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:42 am

I must admit ... its difficult to stay motivated with TFL sometimes seeing how UO is running the franchise into the ground, and this whole Lord of Ultima thing or whatever it's named.

That said, every time I pick up U7 or Serpent Isle again, the fire gets rekindled.

I think it says something about a game that it evokes that kind of thing after so many years, personally.

~Wiz

Dantec Dragon · Post by **Dantec Dragon** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:31 am

Yeah, I was just thinking back about U7 yesterday. I discovered that game back around '97, and was just blown away. _Easily) became my favorite game of all time. Still haven't seen anything that holds a candle...

Post by **Dominus** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:47 am

That said, every time I pick up U7 or Serpent Isle again, the fire gets rekindled.

I suggest you play a little Serpent Isle now...
*innocent whistle*

monotremata · Post by **monotremata** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:17 pm

Ultima will always be THE game for me. In 85 or 86 I used to go to this 'gifted' summer school program where we got to run amok at Cal State San Bernardinos apple and ibm labs. This kid brought in the whole box and everything for Ultima IV and something about the packaging, the graphics, the books, and especially the cloth map that just made me go 'I have to get this NOW!'. Came home that summer and made my parents by me my first Apple II. I never did get Ultima IV (they were actually somewhat hard to get ahold of) but when Ultima V came out, everywhere had it and I finally got my first one.. I played Bards Tale, Might and Magic, etc, but like has already been said NOTHING came close to the interaction the Ultimas brought to the table. From IV and on the Ultima stories consumed you. I still remember being knee deep in Ultima VII when I decided to use the free Prodigy account that came with my IBM PS/2 and discovering the Ultima Dragons in 1992. And yep Im still here 17 years later STILL playing Ultima.. Whats funny is after all that time, I finally just finished Serpent Isle thanks to Dominus and his Mac Exult builds last year. The only modern games that have come close to the excitement of Ultima was the Baldurs Gate series and of course the almighty Fallout 1/2.. Id have to say Baldurs Gate came closest but come on its D&D they better do that one right!

My Ultima Collection cd, along with my original V and VI will be buried with me!
Damn you Richard Garriott and your obsessive RPG worlds!!!

Plebian · Post by **Plebian** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:51 am

Well, Ultima VI was actually the first computer game I ever played seriously. I was always more into baseball and martial arts. In fact, I HATED video games.

That should go to show the impact that the game had. I won't even begin to tell you how much I loved Ultima VII.

By today's standards, the stories are still very mature and well thought out, the world is easy to get emotionally vested in, and I think the real sense of history that goes along with V-IX lends a lot to the game.

Where the series no longer holds interest is in the gameplay department. The fact of the matter is, all Ultima games are pretty much based on the formula of "random encounters between story elements", which is pretty tired by now. I would love to see a title remade "Mass Effect/Dragon Age" style--intimate cinematic conversations broken up by set-piece battles. Therefore, the focus would be squarely on the "why and wherefore" with combat resulting only as a direct result of decisions made by the player.

Post by **drcode** » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:06 pm

I first played U7 after finding the CD for both parts in a bargain bin around 1995, and at first thought it was a standard adventure game like King's Quest. I was amazed at the vastness of the world and the freedom the player had to explore it.

A few years later, working on Exult became even more consuming, as the engine was a puzzle that we had to solve, and clues came in from users all over the world.

I'm afraid I can't say much about modern RPG's as I haven't had much interest in game playing lately, or in maintaining a PC for gaming. Occasionally, I'll play a classic LucasArts adventure; and I plan on playing U7 again, having given it a few years rest. While working on Exult, there were sections that I had to play through WAY too often! But although the graphics in U7 were primitive by today's standards, I still prefer them. Guess I'm old-fashioned, but I hate 3D graphics, and I don't even like seeing CGI in movies.

Korneluk · Post by **Korneluk** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:15 am

@DrCode,
Iam with you with preference over U7's look compared to the 3D beasts of today.
I like the idea that you can explore all 360 degrees, but something about U7 is so much more appealing, if sometimes a little frustrating when you lose something along a north or east area. Party members badly beaten and running will sometimes drop things out of sight. Anyways, I've always enjoyed games with an immersing story more than flash and glitter. I guess it's because I grew up on D&D which is more or less dialogue only.

p.s. I hope you get off that island one day.

monotremata · Post by **monotremata** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:39 pm

Thats part of the reason Baldurs Gate and Neverwinter Nights appealed so much to me..
Sure I love 3D games, I play ALOT of Call of Duty on my Wii and used to be a WoW nutjob too.
But give me 2D tile based/Diablo style graphics any day of the week and Im good to go. I really dont play any modern games, NWN being the newest one. I stick with Exult, DOSBox, MAME, and my lovely Nintendo emus. Oh and the crapload of old D&D/AD&D modules people have re-made for NWN..

When Zelda went 3D on the Nintendo 64 it really threw me off that franchise too.

RedAdder · Post by **RedAdder** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:19 pm

Ultima VII TBG and SI and thus Exult has some technology which I think is still missing in some other games that are produced today:

- containers filled with items that have a weight and a volume.
- picking up items by the pixel that stands out and belongs to the item's shape(no square interaction area).
- quite a wealth of items to collect(I'm collecting ankhs in SI now, just because they are there

- schedules for characters to roam about.

Korneluk · Post by **Korneluk** » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:35 am

^^@roaming characters. Now we just need them to travel between cities on various business.
A U6 style solo mode for Exult would be nice too. Especially if such a mode were more functional.

ziga · Post by **ziga** » Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:07 pm

I only found out about Ultima a year or so back when i tried Ultima Online (Great MMO btw, just how I like it. Free and feels authentic)
But personaly, I doubt a game such as Ultima 7 is possible anymore. Back then games were relatively simple so devs could take their time perfecting evreything.
But these days you need an advanced graphical engine to wow the masses, 3D means evreything has to be modeled in poligons, textured and animated, not just have two drawings that exchange for animations, people expect NPCs to have a voice since they don't wanna read and overall it adds to immersion, and the scale of evreything means that testing would take forever.
So personaly, i think that a game in the scope of Ultima 7 is almost undooable today. You might say Oblivion is almost like it, but no it isn't. Towns are small, evreything feels dead, the world is poorly designed (mostly just randomly generated wilderness that realy comes out badly sometimes) and is not realy near the size of Ultima 7, as far as i know people don't realy do anything exept walk the streets and go to sleep in the evening.

But i would go nuts for Ultima 10

If i ever become a dev i have a dream of making a Ultima game

alagner · Post by **alagner** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:11 am

>But personaly, I doubt a game such as Ultima 7 is possible anymore. Back then games were relatively simple so devs could take their time perfecting evreything.

I doubt that any modern game has the complexity of Black Gate, at least in the field of simulating a living world. And that's why I like the game so much.
Second thing, that caught my attention to Ultima series, is the fact, that most parts of the series dealt with a real social problem - U5 - totalitarism, U6 - racism, etc.

What's more - such games still can be done. The best example here is U5 remake Lazarus - scheduled npcs, 3d graphics and the real Ultima feel.

And, judging from some other topics on this board, "Baldur's Gate style" notebook/journal is also possible to implement in U7, which means a perfect cRPG is yet to come

As long as the devs still have passion for creating it, of course.

For me the only game, that could compete with Ultima is Fallout (1&2, mostly 2). It's also really complex, plot and quests are interesting, and (a very important thing to me, as a RPG player): there always is a choice. Hypothetically: if you are to get one's watch, you can buy it, threaten the owner, ask for it kindly, kill the guy, pick his pocket or break to his house while he's asleep. And sometimes even hire someone to do it for you.

Of course, the world is not 'so alive' as in Ultima, but I can live without it having so much freedom. And what's more - you are not punished by the game mechanics for being a bad guy (which is quite popular in many top-rated games - like, for instance, Baldur's Gate).
I can understand why that was not possible in Ultima (you're 'by design' the savior), but on the other hand - in Lazarus we have an option of playing as an evil Avatar and I think (and hope;) this tendency will continue in other remakes.

At the moment I'm doing a "Infinity games playthrough", so when I'm done with second Icewind and Torment, I'll probably start with Archon (as you could already notice, I generally enjoy remakes - can't wait to play Archon least as good as Laz, I'll have many hours taken out of my life).

>Sticking to the most interesting part of Seregorn's question, and the not-so-discussed one until today, too - I think that there would definitely be a niche for a new Ultima title today.

There IS such niche. But the problem is, that it's not profitable enough (like every niche, not mass) for big producers, so we have to depend on 'indies', otherwise we're out of luck.

Gruck · Post by **Gruck** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:49 am

Alagnar,

To me, every Infinity games playthrough starts and ends with Planescape: Torment. Something about the lack of emphasis on combat, and the way the player's moral choices define the gameplay appeals to me greatly.

monotremata · Post by **monotremata** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:19 pm

I need to go seek me out some used copies of Planescape and Icewind Dale 2. Loved the first Icewind, but since I was Mac only at the time, we never got that one ported over..

Planescape was right before the first Baldurs Gate wasnt it??

Jaesun9 · Post by **Jaesun9** » Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:30 pm

No, Planescape came out ofter the first Baldur's Gate. In fact the demo video of Planescape is on the expansion pack (Tales of the Sword Coast) CD.

Sissy Knox (from yonks ago) · Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:37 pm

I used to post here a very long time ago (irrelevant, as I doubt anyone would remember me!), and a nostalgia kick has led me back. I just wanted to add my thoughts.

It's funny, but I keep coming back to Ultima, Serpent Isle in particular. I think it's more than mere nostalgia. It may be trite of me to say that it got me through some rough times, but it did. Or at least, some mind-shatteringly dull times.

There's something timeless about it. I have played through Oblivion and recently, Fallout 3. They were fine in their own right. Oblivion, in particular, felt to me like a tribute to Ultima in some parts. I wonder if this is just nostalgia talking, too?

Actually, one thing that led me back into Serpent Isle was Oblivion. There are a lot of necromancers there, and while they were evil in Oblivion, every time I'd encounter one, I kept thinking about how awesome Mortegro was, and I started to miss Moonshade. I figured I could make Ultima characters in Oblivion, but you can't really have a party, and even with companion mods, travel feels very lonely. That, and if someone acts up in Oblivion, you can't just (H)ackmove them onto the roof or something. I was very proud of my derelict "eight companions" at the end of Serpent Isle ("Eek, a spider! Kill it, Avatar!").

I realized that nothing would satisfy me like Ultima, so I started playing it again. I'm not really much of a gamer, so I'm not too broken up about being "stuck in the past". I'm actually planning on going to graduate school for film archiving, so I guess sometimes being stuck in the past could work to my advantage somehow.

I am not sure if a new Ultima would ever give me the same feeling. That's not to say something modern would be bad or anything, just...I think the nostalgia just may be the cherry on top for me. But hey, that doesn't mean we can't make new memories with a game that would respect the Ultima legacy without rehashing it...a game with the same obvious love for its world and characters as the older Ultimas.

And exploding cats.

TDI · Post by **TDI** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:07 pm

> Oblivion, in particular, felt to me like a tribute to Ultima in some parts. I wonder if this is just nostalgia talking, too?

No coincidence. Bethesda's Todd Howard is a big fan of Ultima.

http://www.industrygamers.com/galleries ... -howard/1/

alagner · Post by **alagner** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:53 am

>No coincidence. Bethesda's Todd Howard is a big fan of Ultima.
Nice to hear [or rather read] that.

Seems Ultima is one of the most underappreciated crpg series nowadays. Judging from what I observed [no statistics here, so I may be wrong] most people associate Ultima with "nerdy kids playing Ultima Online" rather than "long and once famous role-playing series".
Ok, it's been discontinued since U9 came out, but still it's classic.
Seems that marketing behind Ultima wasn't that strong, like behind, let's say, Baldur's Gate, which at least rings a bell in case of many people.

On the other hand - looks like game devs still like and honor the series by putting small references to Ultimas in their games - like for example a fairy in Ceville using an incantation "In Mani Corp".

Post by **drcode** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:49 pm

I think the Ultima's up through U8 came out before PC's were in every household. I doubt if that many people remember King's Quest or 7th Guest for the same reason. Games weren't the huge money maker they are now.

Korneluk · Post by **Korneluk** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:21 am

I loved 7th guest! I missed out on the 13th hour(?) though. I got my first comp just after Serpent Isle came out and like the Dr. says, most kids I knew didn't have one. One friends father built his out of random salvaged bits. My city had one store that dealt only with computers...now....it's fun to think how things change.

I remember though, how in awe I was of SI considering i was used to Nintendos Dragon warrior. I took it for granted that the "all powerful" computer could do everything and was intrigued yet highly confused when Brendan, Luther, Caladin and perhaps Shemed attacked me while I was escorting Selina to the haunted building. Little had I understood the limitations of game design and recycling art.
Even the back of the box had a mystery. What was Shamino doing on a giant turtle with Kalida?
Re-playing U8 the last few days where there is about 2-3 dozen unique NPC's in the whole game.

alagner · Post by **alagner** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:12 am

>I doubt if that many people remember King's Quest or 7th Guest for the same reason

>it's fun to think how things change.

Ok guys, now you made me feel old

But honestly speaking I remember gettitng my first PC [486SX, 25MHz, wow, that was IT!

and it still stands somewhere in my basement] and my first games (Complete Ultima 7, Doom and Mortal Kombat as far as I remember).

A couple of years [and a couple of PCs] later I bought U9...and it turned out that business killed art. Pity.

monotremata · Post by **monotremata** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:52 pm

"Seems that marketing behind Ultima wasn't that strong, like behind, let's say, Baldur's Gate, which at least rings a bell in case of many people."

Like DrCode said, gaming was a totally different world back in the days when Ultima was new. To be honest for the most part it WAS nerdy kids who happened to have a IIe or IIc at home and who read magazines like A+. Thats how I knew when games were coming out, the ads in those old Apple mags. Consoles like the Atari 2600/Colecovision/Intellivision/etc were more widely advertised then computer games. You never saw tv ads for computer games but you did for console games. You either dilligently checked out your computer mags every month or you heard about a new game from a friend that read em..

N · Post by N » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:18 am

I think that one of the things which still stands for me was how in the Ultima games you actually had to "figure stuff out" I had to think constantly and remember everything, and during that time I had to explore the world.

I'm a bit ashamed to admit just how long it took me to figure out how to talk to the Wisps, but I think it was in a scale of MONTHS. (Though... I think that part of that time was exams... or else I would have been able to measure in terms of how low my grades got)

It's one of the trepidations I have about the whole Journal thread happening. I mean, don't get me wrong, it'd be really nice to have the journal keep track of critical information so that it's not a mess of papers and notebooks beside the PC, a mess of saving games, and hours of random exploring, just to determine where to go next.

But in games like Oblivion, the journal, and quest markers, and limited repetitive dialogue serve to dumb down plot and narrative until there's not always much to do other than attack stuff and pick up weapons. (Okay... I'm not being entirely fair to Oblivion... you can ALSO stare at the unbelievable graphics, and mod it until your heart's content... and Oblivion is just absolutely huge... compared to any of the Ultima games...)

My biggest sense is that somehow in many modern games, the N of the GNS theory of gaming seems to suffer.

Way back when, while I do remember being amazed by U7 graphics, the graphics weren't the key experience of the game. The narrative and puzzle elements were what made me come back.

(But... my guess is that Oblivion has now made more money than an Ultima game ever would... so it seems that we're destined for obscurity...)

andar_b · Post by **andar_b** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:31 pm

King's Quest remains one of the best series ever, but it ended much like Ultima did, with a mediocre sequel, then a horribly non-canon sequel. (God I miss Sierra's InterAction magazine

I even went so far as to send in an ancient registration card a few years back, though I figured they stopped publication.)

The 7th Guest is still in a two CD set on my game shelf, haven't played that in a while. The suspense actually started giving me nightmares last time, so I put it away lol I believe someone mentioned the 13th Hour, they might have been speaking of the 11th Hour.

I've often thought of modding Oblivion to fix some of the utterly mind-numbing conversation with the NPCs, but that would be a full-time job in itself.

Crowley · Post by **Crowley** » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:29 pm

Ultima was a groundbreaking series, and there are some things it did which are still unparalleled. Let's take one thing in particular: the ethics system in Ultima IV. It tracked eight different variables for different moral values. No game since has even tried to implement a system of even similar complexity for tracking the player's moral standing. I know I'm not the only one who's fed up with games that tout how they provide moral choices and the options are saint or baby-eater.

Giovani Cospefogo · Post by **Giovani Cospefogo** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:06 pm

Ultima.

This small word represent a world of imagination for me. My first Ultima game was Ultima III - Exodus on NES (yes, believe me) when I was 16 years old. I never had a computer until my 20's and the home videogame platforms were my only choice.

I loved Ultima III - Exodus. I spent many months playing it, mainly because English is not my mother tongue (I am Brazilian) and also because I needed to rent the cartridge on the weekends always praying to had my saves erased by some non cRPG lover.

Then, after some time, I made contact with Ultima VI on a friend's PC, and also learn about Ultima VII on Brazilian game magazines. I was deep into home console RPGs at thos times (like Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior for NES) but no other game in the world gave me more adventure feeling as ULTIMA SERIES.

It is really nice to see how many people out there love the series like me.

Cheers,
Cospefogo.

Ozrick · Post by **Ozrick** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:33 am

I hate Ultima. The first Ultima I played was U6 on my Amstrad 1640, the game was in English and I was too young to understand how to play it, but a few years later, when I discovered The Black Gate and Serpent Isle and started to get passionated by the Ulima's serie, my demand in video games, especially RPG, increased so much that today, when I buy a CRPG that I'm so existed to discover, I constantly quit it after a few hour, almost depressed by the emptiness of the world. Even "Arx Fatalis" or "Arcanum", 2 games that I completed with pleasure won't make me come back and finish them again and again like Ultimas. So, thanks Ultima for still bringing me into fantastic worlds full of life and humor but I hate you for having made me so demanding with other games.

Ozrick.

Giovani Cospefogo · Post by **Giovani Cospefogo** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:57 pm

Hej Ozrick,

I know what you mean... It is the same situation when you start listening to jazz music (real jazz, bebop, hardbob, cool, etc). Every other popular musical genre start looking so empty...

=)

Jayson · Post by **Jayson** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:47 pm

I thought it was ironic that I signed on to Facebook last night, and there was a post by Felicia Day about her 5 favorite games. At the top: Ultima VII.

Of course, had to Like, reply, and tell you all about it!

Kensu · Post by **Kensu** » Tue May 29, 2012 8:43 pm

It gets even better. If you were on Prodigy back when the Dragons first formed, Felicia Day was on there as Codex Dragon!
I actually remember her, she had a proclivity for purple prose.

Post by **Dominus** » Tue May 29, 2012 9:03 pm

Necroposter....

Wizardry Dragon · Post by **Wizardry Dragon** » Tue May 29, 2012 9:05 pm

You know with how the forum is laid out if you aren't paying attention it's easy to revive old threads or even reply to very old comments in ongoing discussions. I almost replied to a comment in Crowley's usecode thread from 2009

Cheers,
Peter M Dodge
aka Wizardry Dragon

Kensu · Post by **Kensu** » Wed May 30, 2012 1:16 pm

Threads never die, they're like those HeLa cancer cell lines.
(besides I thought it was better to impart this information in an existing thread where it was releveant, rather than start a new one that would likely get frozen.)

monotremata · Post by **monotremata** » Thu May 31, 2012 8:55 pm

Wow I actually remember Felicia/Codex from Prodigy hahaha.

Man Im old.

Kensu what was your dragon name back then??

Kensu · Post by **Kensu** » Thu May 31, 2012 10:59 pm

I was Electrum Dragon/Wyvern.

Wizardry Dragon · Post by **Wizardry Dragon** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:05 am

I remember Cinnabon. Nuff said.

Dantec Dragon · Post by **Dantec Dragon** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:47 pm

Hah, what the heck. I still troll here.

Became a rabid Ultima fan around age 14 or so, back in the late nineties. 7 was above all my favorite, but I was quite partial to Savage Empire and Ultima Underworld. Actually, I really quite enjoyed U8 also. Very good music and feel to the world, even if it was a big regression in many ways. As said above, I fell in love with the world. I could actually trick myself into believing that what I was experiencing was an actual world, and not a construct out to fool me. Baldurs Gate was a very nice construct with an almost cinematic feel, but U7 was seamless, whole and alive (and of course it came first).

When I first got on the internet back in '97 I used to post on usenets UDIC, which was real fun. Started out the Never Ending Thread in '98 (http://everything2.com/title/The+Never+Ending+Thread)

Also actually had a brief stint making a very juvenile online ultima news paper (with editions and everything) via raw HTML before we had blog service providers. The Ultima Herald. Hehe. Actually had an interview with Warren Spektor on it. Received (and then lost somehiw) an interview with an artist who worked on the games. Can't find any remaining trace or reference to it online. Perhaps there is a copy of the web archives?

Dantec Dragon

Slobbedybob · Post by **Slobbedybob** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:25 am

Games were the money makers they are now when Ultima came out just it was a lot harder to get a couple hundred dollar machine and 15+ floppy discs and enter DOS commands than it was to pop a cartridge in a 100 dollar SNES or Sega Genisis and be able to play instantly.

Btw Zelda is awesome in 2d and3d so don't dis it

Anyways, my first Ultima game was 7 and I was hooked when I saw the opening cutscene. I will never forget stumbling clueless around trinsic for the password or the hours I spent robbing the bank. I think if we got the right people behind a project and release it on the right platform, then a new Ultima might work and match the emmersion of7.

MrPaul · Post by **MrPaul** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:20 pm

Not perfect; but on the idea, I suppose Shroud of the Avatar should be mentioned:

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/

It isn't Ultima VII; but it is influenced by it - as it's designed by Garriot.

Post by **Dominus** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:12 am

You mean the game they will soon rename to "Houses of the Avatar"? (Seriously how many houses stories do they think will interest their fans?)

Gunther8787 · Post by **Gunther8787** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:27 pm

I am still confused with the fact whether this is going to have a Single player option or not. Some say it will, some say it won't an will be a copy from Ultima Online (read some comments on Youtube).

Also, I found a vid on youtube where someone had an interview with him (this guy is also working on that project) an in that interview, Garriot said that he's still trying to get the right for Ultima back, and if he were to succeed, he would remake "Pagan" and "Ascension".

I found that video last year. So, I'm actually wondering if he still wants the rights of his own game back, now that he's working on "Shroud Of The Avatar"...

I am also wondering if Shamino would be in that game, since Sham is Garriot aswell and Garriot has kept the rights of Lord Brittish. Or, Iolo since he exists too.