Exult 3d

Duke086 · Post by **Duke086** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:24 am

Hey guys. I'm sorry if this isn't the best place to post this, but i'm curious and cant find anything else on it...

what happened to Exult 3d? I know there was that thread on it but that was like, 4 years ago and I can't find anything else on it. Is it possible to get it anywhere or is it not ready yet?

Post by **Dominus** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:01 pm

nothing's been done with it since then.

SB-X · Post by **SB-X** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:31 pm

It should "work" still, and servus said it is more or less completed, but it needs some interface improvement before you'd call it "ready". (I wouldn't try to play the whole game with it.) You can download it somewhere.

Beryllium · Post by **Beryllium** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:24 am

I've been holding off replaying for ... maybe a decade now? ... until Exult 3D s playable.

There are two classes of problem. One is gameplay-related, such as 'hidden' items now being easily found. Fixes for these require a specific 3-D mod. We can ignore them as being trivial, and maybe at some future date port over the various mods and addons to 3-D

The other class is engine-related. Are there really any engine-related showstoppers preventing us from playing the whole game?

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:01 am

Lots things look blocky and some shapes look really weird and that is what I get from screen shots I remember. I think a lot of shapes would need to be remade. Play the game in 2d. If you can't stand the graphics anymore than you wouldn't like the 3d version that probably will never be finished. If it was finished it would probably make the game worse.

OT:

Anyone else not able to stay loged in to post?

Quentin · Post by **Quentin** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:07 pm

hmm I'm not having problems with staying logged, as you can see from this post.

Using the Keyring mod or SI fixes with the Hq3x scaler is cause enough to replay the U7 games, even without 3D. When smooth scrolling is finished, that'll be icing on the cake.

Beryllium · Post by **Beryllium** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:46 pm

So the only problems are cosmetic ones?

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:58 pm

I'm not sure how stable it was or if anything was broken.

SB-X · Post by **SB-X** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:29 am

The main problem is that trying to play it that way sucks, mainly due to effects of it being a 2D to 3D conversion and not a "real" 3D engine, but I don't think those are limitations. The engine just needs some interface tweaks IMO, such as more natural camera movement. (probably a bit more than a simple tweak)
The unnatural 2D models have mostly been replaced with better 3D renditions, and it should be trivial for a modeller to finish the rest.
It's been a while since last trying it and I don't even know where to get it now.

Gunnar · Post by **Gunnar** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:05 am

There is a pseudo build of exult3D here http://aiera.timeimmortal.net/ultima7/exult-3d/, but that's only an executable and models. I guess it's compiled against a snapshot and will propably not work.

Also:

Sam wrote:Ya know... I've released the source a few times. wjp even glared at me - http://www.google.com/search?q=exult3d+patch pulls up a relevant patch on its first hit, and a little more Googling can show that versions of the 3D source have been floating around for quite a while...

Here is a slightly more official patch:

http://www.sammatthews.com/files/Exult14CVS_3D.zip
http://www.sammatthews.com/files/Exult1 ... models.rar

Use the diff contained in Exult14CVS_3D.zip against Exult 1.4 CVS, and add the two source files to the source root. I made the patch itself with WinDiff. Good luck!

Exult14CVS_3D-3dmodels.rar, while optional, contains a lot of compiled replacement models and textures for a lot of shapes, including most mountainsides, the Avatar, and Iolo. Put the 3dmodels directory into the same directory as your executable.

If you need the 3D Model source models (in 3D Studio Max 3 format), or the 3DSMAX3 export plugin, let me know (the source files are relatievly huge).

The only thing left before Exult3D is done is to fix up the awful camera control.

Good luck compiling! Heh heh heh. No, really!

-Sam

Beryllium · Post by **Beryllium** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:05 am

Does it not have a working first-person viewpoint?

I had envisaged a FPV from the POV of the Avatar. Was looking forward to always looking around to make sure Iolo wasn't going to shoot me in the back or Dupre wasn't unpacking the Staff of Doom because he dropped his sword.

Switchable FPV seems so obviously easier to implement than a roving or following camera.

SB-X · Post by **SB-X** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:33 am

Guess where this was taken!
http://www.sammatthews.com/images/Exult ... -SI-09.jpg

As you can see from this experimental first-person view it didn't look so hot, but with real 3D models in place it should look much better.

More screenshots: http://www.sammatthews.com/images/Exult3D/

Sky · Post by **Sky** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:49 am

Can someone compile source into binary?

Beryllium · Post by **Beryllium** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:11 pm

SB-X, those screenshots look just fine to me. Sure, the aesthetics could be improved... but I don't care about cosmetics to the extent to make it a showstopper.

Please consider Sky's request seconded. Would somebody who can please provide a working up-to-date compiled binary?

Thanks

SB-X · Post by **SB-X** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:38 pm

For what operating system?

Beryllium · Post by **Beryllium** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:09 pm

Windows XP would be great.

Beryllium · Post by **Beryllium** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:30 pm

Is the 3-D engine an add-on to Exult?

I mean, if recompiled now would it incorporate the latest snapshot, or the latest stable release. As opposed to encapsulating our less-than-perfect understanding of many years ago?

wusch · Post by **wusch** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:02 am

Hey, having a compiled version of U7-3D would be fine !! Can you perhaps manage to complete it and make a download availible somewhere, please??

wusch

mikemayday · Post by **mikemayday** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:17 am

I would also be glad to see a compiled version please. Just for kicks

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:24 pm

IMO making a 3D version of Ultima VII would be quite pointless unless it was made with for instance the Gamebryo engine or something similarly modern. Exult 3D as it looks in those shots just looks like... well, shite, to be frank. And if the old argument "it's not how it looks, it's how it plays that matters" comes into play, then why not settle with the 2D version? Apart from the graphics and other obvious technical improvements, Ultima VII is as close to perfect as it gets.

mikemayday · Post by **mikemayday** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:06 pm

It's just for kicks, man! Can't you see the wonderful kicks? :>

Bobbers · Post by **Bobbers** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:07 pm

If you want a 3D Ultima VII, do what Lazarus did for U5 and make it in Dungeon Siege. Making 3D models for Exult *is* pointless. That's Not What It's For And It Doesn't Do It Very Well.

TdI · Post by **TdI** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:14 pm

You've got to be kidding. This looks awesome:

I can't think of any Oblivion screenshot looking more beautyfull than this.

I'm sad that Sam seems to have given up on it after getting this far.

Post by **drcode** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:13 pm

Wow, that is pretty. Is the sky a fixed image, or is it 3D too (ie, do the clouds move)?

TdI · Post by **TdI** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:53 pm

I don't know. This is just one of the two screenshots on Sams site. I would assume however that it was a fixed image at the time the screenshot was made. As far as I know he was busy making 3D-models for shapes and I think he would have told if he had implemented some kind of 3D/rotating skymap.

Petrell · Post by **Petrell** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:43 am

One of the two? To my count there are 61 E3D related shots in his screenshot gallery but that's the only one with sky : http://www.sammatthews.com/images/Exult3D/

TdI · Post by **TdI** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:53 am

Uh... yeah. I forgot about the image gallery. I was just looking at the "projects" page.

Bobbers · Post by **Bobbers** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:01 pm

"I can't think of any Oblivion screenshot looking more beautyfull than this."

Are we looking at the same screenshot? I've seen Playstation games with better 3D models than that. Final Fantasy 7 looks better than that. It's 2008.

Here's the thing, okay. Aside from Ultima crapnine, they aren't designed to have a dynamic view frustrum, and thus look terrible if given one. You would actually have to remake the game from the ground up to make it look halfway decent, and that's precisely what Project Britannia is doing in Dungeon Siege. Lazarus is already "done" (with many show-stopping but intermittent bugs), and U6P is nearly "done" also. They're both based on Project Britannia, and I can think of no immediate reason why you shouldn't be able to capitalize on their hard work to remake BG, though SI would require a new map.

Dungeon Siege is a better engine to use for this purpose than Morrowind or Oblivion due to Bethesda making so much of the inner mechanics of their games "hard coded", unavailable to their TESCS. I know this because I have extensively modded for Morrowind, and done a few for Oblivion. There is also little or no support for parties in either of those games, while Dungeon Siege has everything you want except a decent camera.

Petrell · Post by **Petrell** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:49 am

Lazarus is already "done" (with many show-stopping but intermittent bugs), and U6P is nearly "done" also.

Umm, as far as I know, U5L has no real showstopping bugs and no further development will be made beyond what modders do. If you know any that has not been mentioned in U5L Tech Support forums please report them so they can be looked into.

Also, U6P is far from done. Latest play test release is Milestone 3 and probably 3 or more milestones will be released before actual Final release. It'll most likely take more than a year to finish still.

As for Project Britannia and Dungeon Siege, you're right. It's probably currently the best basis for party based Ultima Remake with most of the needed graphics, map and technical aspects (magic, Ultima conversation system, moongates, ships etc.) already build into it. All the necessary groundwork is there. All you need to do is build the cities and major locations, write (copy) dialogues and quests, fill the wilderness with encounters and presto, you're done. (yeah right, if it would be that easy, all Ultima's would have been remade using it already but you get the idea hopefully

).

Only major drawback is world interaction and physics that are sorely lacking. U6P will try to add more world interaction but even then it'll just be clicking on object and choosing what to do with it and you 'do' it or don't depending if have items needed in your inventory. By 'do' I mean you instantly get what you want without any working animation or anything else. It'll just be click fest with no feedback beyond maybe 'you've forged a sword' or what ever. You won't be seeing blacksmith melting ore, pouring it to mould, getting the blade from mould, hammering cooling and heating it until its ready. I doubt that doing something like that is possible within the engine and nothing can be done with physics or other engine limitations unfortunately.

I wish someday we'll see an 3D RPG with real living world, where npc's go about their living like in real life and actually doing everything they are supposed to be doing (with all the animation needed). I know it's not likely to ever happen but one can always wish

. Maybe, someday, there will be at least an game engine that allows modders to do it.

TdI · Post by **TdI** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:23 am

"Are we looking at the same screenshot? I've seen Playstation games with better 3D models than that. Final Fantasy 7 looks better than that. It's 2008."

To quote Iolo: beauty lies in the eye of the beholder.

And the 3D-models are great, considering they where made by a single 3D-enthusiast and not by a group of professional designers.

Of course U7 wasn't designed with a dynamic view in mind, but what U7 does do is create a true 3D-representation of the world. Every object in Ultima has width, height and depth, which makes it possible to create true 3D-objects of every object in the game, which is exactly what Sam did. I don't see why U7s fixed view is the problem. You can write your own camera control and "fix" the few places where there is "no background" for certain things because the designers thought that nobody would see it anyway.

Beryllium · Post by **Beryllium** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:20 am

The screenshots we have seen are, indeed, beautiful, and tantalising in their promise of replaying this old favourite from a different point of view.
Replaying the original, maybe with fixes and enhancements, not some remake. The remakes have their place, but only the original scripting can be called the real thing.

U7, on release, was revolutionary, but since then the 'over the shoulder' viewpoint has become such a cliche that playing in that mode is distracting and non-immersive.

Philipp · Post by **Philipp** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:47 pm

And what is the main reason to use Exult? Because it doesn't require a hardware & software setup that you couldn't use for anything else, like 3D graphics and Windows. Dungeon Siege according to Wikipedia is available only for M$ and Apple OS - that's quite a difference. Thanks again to the whole Exult team for making it possible to compile their work on a system of your choice.

smatthews · Post by **smatthews** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:44 pm

Hmm... Wow, that was a long time ago!

If you're having trouble compiling, here's the newer Windows binary+models pack I found lying around:

http://sammatthews.com/files/Exult14CVS_3D-r3.rar

In case you want to try to compile it (please do! Make a spiffy interface:), you might also need this file in addition to the source (Thanks to Ronald S. for mentioning its omission!)

http://sammatthews.com/files/glutil.h

Someone finish it

- Sam

mikemayday · Post by **mikemayday** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:24 am

Sam, if I worked on more models, would that encourage you to continue work on E3d?

icepack212 · Post by **icepack212** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:29 am

Hello, I just installed the latest binary Sam posted. Exult 3d runs, but the main menu is all orange and graphics are distorted. Also after I click Journey Onward the game crashes, is there a fix?

TDI · Post by **TDI** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:47 pm

Probably not. As mentioned before, Exult3D is discontinued, meaning, nobody is working on it or providing support for it.
There's probably no easy way of getting it to work correctly without accessing the code.

Caravaggio · Post by **Caravaggio** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:08 pm

Every few months I rummage through these forums just for a few interesting threads, this one most of all. I take it there's been no change, updates, or sharing of the code still?

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:08 am

I would be nice if Exult 3d worked halfway decently in the first place. I've never gotten it to work.

Most of the code seems to be a relatively easy merge except for menulist.cc and palette.cc. They are both missing functions. I also have no idea how to compile it to include opengl and new .cc.

Code: Select all

--- C:\Games\ExultDiff\exult_14\menulist.cc		Mon Feb 06 00:03:33 2006
+++ C:\Games\ExultDiff\exult_14_3D\menulist.cc	Mon Feb 06 00:03:36 2006
@@ -94,7 +104,11 @@
 
 void MenuChoice::paint(Game_window *gwin)
 {
+#ifdef HAVE_OPENGL
+        if (!dirty&&!GL_manager::get_instance()) return;
+#else
         if (!dirty) return;
+#endif
 	dirty = false;
 
 	Shape_frame *shape;

Code: Select all

--- C:\Games\ExultDiff\exult_14\palette.cc	Sat Feb 04 01:55:30 2006
+++ C:\Games\ExultDiff\exult_14_3D\palette.cc	Sat Feb 04 04:52:04 2006
@@ -125,6 +125,15 @@
  */
 void Palette::load(const char *fname, int index, const char *xfname, int xindex)
 	{
+#ifdef HAVE_OPENGL
+#ifdef DEBUG
+	printf("Loading palette %s : %d (%s : %d)\n", fname, index, xfname, xindex );
+#endif
+	//If we are in-game and in OpenGL mode, then ALWAYS use a daytime palette.
+	//We will take care of nighttime through non-palette means
+	if( GL_manager::get_instance() && strcmp( fname, "/palettes.flx" ) == 0 )
+		index = PALETTE_DAY;
+#endif
 	size_t len;
 	char *buf = 0;
 	if (std::strncmp(fname, "/", sizeof("/") - 1) == 0 &&

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:57 am

I did a quick merged to revision 6048 except for what's mentioned earlier and the files can be found here if someone is interested in updating Exult3d to the latest version of Exult.

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:09 pm

I compiled Exult 3d using modern Exult SVN. I'll try to release it later today. Remember the interface is horrible and the game is likely very buggy and frustrating for you to play.

Code: Select all

Controls:
   zoom and pan camera:
      shift-drag mouse

   rotate camera:
      ctrl-drag mouse

I suggest having a savegame ready and changing the scale_method in exult.cfg to OpenGL and then loading the game with the --nomenu command since the main menu is screwed up with OpenGL enabled atm.

I think you can change the scaler to OpenGL in game but changing the video settings in game afterward is a no no.

I can see one reason why people would have problems with Sam's releases

Sam set the path for 3dmodels to:
C:/Documents and Settings/Sam Matthews/Desktop/Ultima VII/

I'll have to see if other things are set to use Sam's personal computer settings.

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:53 am

Exult 3D 6060 Source
Exult 3D 6060 Win32

Well, I've finally posted a modern binary for Exult 3d.

Post by **Dominus** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:11 am

nice, thanks. Will try this when I return home in half a week.

alagner · Post by **alagner** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:26 pm

Dom, I've just tried this, and if you're interested in my opinion:

-looks nice, with all the models correctly developed it would look really great.
- --nomenu option is a must. W/o it it'll crash the computer.
- buggy and 'crashy' but it not tested so that's nothing special.
- interface and camera operating makes it completely unplayable. I know it's the matter of testing and fixing it, but it makes me wonder whether this could be done correctly here. I mean, camera positioning + adapting the interface to it might be the worst pain here...

But still, it looks very promising.

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:27 pm

Also, since many people many think I did most or all of the work, I need to post here that Sam Matthews is the one that did most of the work. I just merged most of his project with the current SVN and fixed an Exult bug that screwed up the OpenGL mouse.

OpenGL itself is buggy and not just the Exult 3D version so the crashing and main/intro menu problems are due to that and not Exult 3D specifically.

I don't know how much more I will work on this though since my programming skills and drive to work on it are pretty limited. I think I should at least make it addable to the main code without overriding the normal OpenGL code.

Dude · Post by **Dude** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:18 pm

How come that it plays in regular mode (not 3D) for me?

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:26 pm

You need to set the scale_method in exult.cfg to OpenGL.

Dude · Post by **Dude** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:50 pm

Ok, did that, and now the colors look incorrectly in the game select screen of Exult. Also everything looks bigger than the current resolution should allow, so there are parts of the screen missing. The cursor of the mouse lags, and when I click on a game, it freezes.
Tried both on window and full screen mode. Both present the same problems.

Could it be because I'm running it on Vista x64? Should I try Exult 3D in my XP installation?

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:08 pm

OpenGL mode is buggy. (The Exult menu also has a fixed size times the scaling number.)

You need to bypass the menu with the --nomenu command line.

For BG:
exult3D.exe --bg --nomenu

For SI:
exult3D.exe --si --nomenu

Dude · Post by **Dude** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:47 pm

It works now. Awesome! Thanks for your help.

But how can I make the sky visible like in the screenshot posted by TdI?

Post by **Malignant Manor** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:00 pm

I have no idea. I really don't think Sam included it with the source.