Has anyone thought of using Exult to make their own game yet

[Joshua]

Has anyone thought of using Exult to make their own game yet? It is an entire game engine after all. Since there are no good 2D engines anymore, I would like to use Exult to make my own game.

[marzo]

As I always tend to say in these cases: while Exult is adequate for many mods, it is nowhere near ready for new games -- too much data is still hard-coded in it.

[Scythifuge]

I have some ideas for an all new game, and my S.E. T.C. is practice towards that end.

[Scythifuge]

Quote:

"As I always tend to say in these cases: while Exult is adequate for many mods, it is nowhere near ready for new games -- too much data is still hard-coded in it."


But is it currently possible to create an all-new game that works within Ultima VII's "rules"? I must admit some worry about getting the S.E.T.C. together once the graphics are done. When thinking about the next game, it seems that it would be possible to create it, but it would have the same perspective and character attributes as Ultima VII.

Also, a couple of quick questions. Is it possible to change the rain sprites and how they work? If not currently, do you think that it will be possible in the future? I'm looking to have a "heavy sheets of rain" effect.

[marzo]

But is it currently possible to create an all-new game that works within Ultima VII's "rules"?

That is actually *not* what I meant; by "hard-coded data" I mean exactly that: what shapes constitute chairs (shapes on which you can sit), what shapes constitute doors (which you can path-find through), how gumps (for example, paperdoll gumps, spellbook) work, etc. The perspective and attribute set are things which wouldn't likely be toyed with in the future (although you can add more attributes through usecode).

Is it possible to change the rain sprites and how they work?

Only by editing Exult.

[Scythifuge]

Quote:

"That is actually *not* what I meant; by "hard-coded data" I mean exactly that: what shapes constitute chairs (shapes on which you can sit), what shapes constitute doors (which you can path-find through), how gumps (for example, paperdoll gumps, spellbook) work, etc. The perspective and attribute set are things which wouldn't likely be toyed with in the future (although you can add more attributes through usecode)."

Thats sort of what I meant about working within U7's rules. For example, many objects I have created/ported for S.E.T.C. are meant to work the same way as things like chairs, fountains, etc., and thus replace the original U7 ones. Luckily, many objects for S.E.T.C. have U7 counterparts!

Quote:

"Only by editing Exult."

Do you mean the Exult source code? I have zero programming experience, so that is way beyond my capabilities! It would be neat though, to change the way rain works. It always felt like a drizzle to me in U7.

[TdI]

>Do you mean the Exult source code? I have zero programming experience, so that is way beyond my capabilities! It would be neat though, to change the way rain works. It always felt like a drizzle to me in U7.


Yeah, the rain in Ultima7 falls like snow.
In fact, I always thought it WAS snow.

[TdI]

Thinking furhter along these lines, maybe it IS snow....

... which of course leads us to the case of why it doesn't stay on the ground...

... which can only mean one of three things:

1. Britannia has lower gravity than Earth, ergo rain in Britannia falls like snow on Earth
2. Britannia has, much like Earth itself, a global warming problem, which makes the snow melt once it reaches the ground.
3. I should shut up already.

[marzo]

Do you mean the Exult source code?

Yes.

[drcode]

How should rain fall? (Sheesh, I live in Oregon, and ought to know this!)

I'm wondering if there are some small changes we could do to make it look more realistic, perhaps have the drops fall at more random rates.

[TdI]

I just realised, that gravity pulls everything towards it at an equal force, be it raindrop or snowflake (well I didn't just realise it, I knew it beforehand, but I just thought of it now), the actual factor in making a snowflake fall slower than a raindrop being the friction of the snowflake with the surrounding atmosphere, which leads us to an additional fourth possibility to the three assumptions mentioned above, namely:

4. Britannia has denser atmosphere than earth.

[marzo]

perhaps have the drops fall at more random rates.

We already have 2 fall rates for raindrops; although most of them (3/4) fall at the slower rate. Maybe changing the distribution a little, or having 3 rates could make it look better. Or maybe even increasing minimum drop speed could also help.

One thing which I noticed in the originals which Exult doesn't do yet is that some drops stop midway through the screen (and stay in place for a few 'ticks') as if it had eached the ground.

[Scythifuge]

In addition to "rain fall speed", I was wondering if the rain sprites could be edited, and if so, where is the sprite located? Instead of one pixel per drop, 2 or 3 or combinations of diagonally connected pixels may help in giving a heavier rainfall look. I'll have to load up Dreamweb, since I recall a cool looking rain effect in that game.

One of the pluses for doing the S.E.T.C. are weather effects, which are not present in the original game. Being able to create a "rainforest" type rainfall would be excellent! It would definitely add to the atmosphere. Maybe NPCs could be scripted to go inside if they are near a building if it starts to rain like that!

[marzo]

In addition to "rain fall speed", I was wondering if the rain sprites could be edited, and if so, where is the sprite located?

Once again, in the Exult source; there isn't an actual sprite, Exult actually draws a pixel for each raindrop.

[Scythifuge]

Quote:

"Once again, in the Exult source; there isn't an actual sprite, Exult actually draws a pixel for each raindrop."

Ah, I see. Please excuse my lack of understanding on how certain things work. I'm eager to learn though!

[SB-X]

I'll have to load up Dreamweb, since I recall a cool looking rain effect in that game.

Yeah I've always loved the pixel-rain effects in certain console games, for example:

I don't recommend changing Exult's rain effects to anything like that, however. It wouldn't have the same Ultima feel. More and faster raindrops at times would be nice though.

One of the pluses for doing the S.E.T.C. are weather effects, which are not present in the original game. Being able to create a "rainforest" type rainfall would be excellent! It would definitely add to the atmosphere.

Now that sounds like it could be a cool effect. Working with a mod gives you more possibilities. Do you mean the forest canopy affecting the rainfall so you see less precipitation while actually within the jungle? (similar to in U7 when indoors)
While your at it, how about parallax shadow effects, like this?


Don't count out adding extra features just because you don't know how to modify Exult. Someone else can help you. Even having never completed SE, I'm really looking forward to playing your game, so keep at it please!

[Richard C]

My vote is on Britannia having lower gravity. After all, if the circumfrence the globe in less than a day, that'd be one tiny planet!

But we all know that Britannia is not in fact a planet, but a continent of the planet of Sosaria that has been magically isolated from the rest of the world since the destruction of Mondain's gem fractured spacetime and the destruction of Exodus sealed it. But if memory serves, the old Realm of Lord British (which broke off to become modern Britannia, along with parts of Mondain's former kingdom) was a pretty significant chunk of Sosaria, so the whole planet's still rather small.

[Richard C]

Oops, I meant "if you can circumnavigate the globe in less than a day". Oops.

[Scythifuge]

Quote:

"Now that sounds like it could be a cool effect. Working with a mod gives you more possibilities. Do you mean the forest canopy affecting the rainfall so you see less precipitation while actually within the jungle? (similar to in U7 when indoors)
While your at it, how about parallax shadow effects, like this?
http://luteijn.xs4all.nl/~sbx/kamigami% ... ce%202.png"

I've been trying to think of ways to create a canopy for sections of Eodon that would have a thick canopy. I like the idea of parallax shadow effects, and will look into it! That would aid immensely in creating a canopy effect. As far as the rain is concerned, it would be great to set it up to randomly fall in heavy sheets outside of canopy areas, but remain a U7-like drizzle while underneath the thickest parts. Grove-like areas would have heavy rain falling into them.

Another think about the canopy areas, is that the lighting will also have to change, since it is naturally darker under a thick canopy in real life. I'm thinking that the ground texture for those areas should have a mulchy, dead-leaf look to it, with lush green grassy ground outside of canopy areas.

[Scythifuge]

Quote:

"My vote is on Britannia having lower gravity. After all, if the circumfrence the globe in less than a day, that'd be one tiny planet!

But we all know that Britannia is not in fact a planet, but a continent of the planet of Sosaria that has been magically isolated from the rest of the world since the destruction of Mondain's gem fractured spacetime and the destruction of Exodus sealed it. But if memory serves, the old Realm of Lord British (which broke off to become modern Britannia, along with parts of Mondain's former kingdom) was a pretty significant chunk of Sosaria, so the whole planet's still rather small."

I love discussions on Ultima like this, since many things were left unexplained when the series ended. I feel that it is up to the Ultima-fan community to fill in the gaps and keep the series alive for all time!

[Joshua]

I didn't expect to log on and see so many responses. I do have programming experience, so I am not sure that would bother me so much. I do pretty much mean tho, just rip out their graphics, for mine (an in place update) and change the story, dialog etc, maybe some of the rules governing battle, but literally using the engine as it stands. One could always base an engine off of exult, if they wanted to make their own engine based on yours. (OS of course)

Joshua

[marzo]

The parallax shadows will be difficult to do. As for the canopy... you could make a 'roof' whose graphics are the tree tops. The forests would be composed of trees without tops with the tree-top roof which would vanish from view while the avatar is under it.

[Scythifuge]

Quote:

"The parallax shadows will be difficult to do. As for the canopy... you could make a 'roof' whose graphics are the tree tops. The forests would be composed of trees without tops with the tree-top roof which would vanish from view while the avatar is under it."

That is another excellent idea! I'm reminded of the first time in Gothic (favorite CRPG series after Ultima!!!) when I ran into the forest for the first time, and it got thicker, darker, and foreboding. With 50-60% of the base items done, I will be soon focusing on flora, and will experiment with this idea. That would really add to the atmosphere of the game. The player would see the large trees with the tree roof as they approached the edge of the forest. They would know that they are about to enter a darker, more potentially dangerous area as soon as they enter and the palette gets darker! It is in these areas that the player will have to contend with the big cats and smaller, faster dinosaurs.

Another thing that I am considering is making larger versions of certain U7 trees, like the palms for example. I am thinking of doubling or tripling their heights, and busting them up into seperate tiles like the default large trees are. Doing this will add realism and allow for more detail, like adding vines that appear to hang from the canopy. I'm going to experiment with "invisible steps" that are attached to certain trees, so that some animals appear to be climbing them. This could allow the player to climb certain trees and explore certain upper parts of the canopy.

[TdI]

>Gothic (favorite CRPG series after Ultima!!!)

Mine too. In my humble opinion, Gothic, of all modern RPGs, comes closest to the Ultima feel.
Haven't played G3 yet tho... I've had no time and I heard its gone crapways for similiar reasons as U8/U9... Trouble with the publisher and insistance on deadline even though it wasn't finished yet.

[mjohnston]

I've been mucking around with exult studio and using exult and u7 graphics/shapes to make what may end up being a new game - or a very very large mod. I've posted something about it, it may be a couple pages back, a thread called "a mod" or something like that.

[DarkAvatar2]

i saw that you were talking about rain i thought i'd ask.. has anyone thought of having the idea of adding snowfall? i think it would make the north part of SI a bit more realistic.. right now its just a big area of snow.

[TdI]

But Ultima 7 already has snow. What we need is rain.

Even the NPCs say so.

[Salicias]

I am pretty sure it is late fall, or even winter when you get to Britannia. The stench from Locke lake would be unbearable otherwise.

-Salicias

[SB-X]

Not to mention the autumn leaves on trees.

Then, here's an idea for a mod. Why not make it so that the environment gets more and more winter-like as you progress through the plot? (in BG) So that when you start the game in Trinsic, it looks the way it is now - like Fall - but once you get to "Hidden Pirate Island AKA Isle of the Avatar" it's completely cold and snowy.
Looking at the orrery and the alignment of the planets, you can see that it's possible by checking the current state of important global flags.
The problem (besides any necessary "engine enhancements") would be making the transition look smooth, so that the ground isn't suddenly covered in snow after you find Alagner's notebook (for example).