imaginary U7 dialogue patch

[notAdragon]

While not as bad as U9, U7 and SI do have their own weird consistency
problems going on. Hence I'd like to start an imaginary "dialogue patch",
similar to the one that exist for U9.

Note that I have no intention to see this being implemented into exult.
This is for purely amusement purposes. This is more like something
users would play with once exult studio is out and everyone is using
it to edit their own versions of U7/SI.

Ok, so first we all know the cantra thing. I wouldn't say it's belongs here,
since I would consider it a pure bug in the game.

Things I think needs patched are: why do the guards at the Bull tower
prefer one single gold bar instead of two million goid coins?

the patch will probably indicate that those gold bars are special (unless
you cheat, the mint is the only source of gold bars you have access to
before you free Hawk). Maybe they are sending you on a dare to go
to the mint, and Britannian gold bar is the only proof that you have
been into the mint.

Can someone come up with a better dialogue patch to explain why
guards prefer gold bars over money-enough-to-buy-yourself-a-mint?

notAdragon
norApremium

[MV]

Because they were just short of one single gold bar to finish their gold brick house.

They had already bought all the other bricks on their wages (ever wonder why there were heaps of guards? Because they get paid heaps), and they ran out of sources for bricks. They wouldn't take the money because as previously mentioned, they are swimming in money already, and they are too lazy to just forge their own bricks from all their money. Plus they have to have something to fill the swimming pool with.

[artaxerxes]

/me laughing REALLY loud

LOL

That is SO FUNNY!!

LOL

Artaxerxes
ps: no sarcasm... I really laughed out loud

[Dominus]

Yeah, MV got it right. With the false coin spell they accumulated as much gold as they needed (not that you can buy much on SI anyway). But gold bars can't be created with that spell....

[Dantec Dragon]

I personally dont know why you cant sleep with whatername in cove, in BG, when you are in love with her, but you can still go and sleep with the hookers in Buccaneers den. That would be a good addition.

OOH, ALSO, being able to _buy_ a house in britan would be _Really_ nice. That way I wouldent have to choose a nice one, kill the npc occupants, and hide their corpses somewhere so I dont feel guilty. It would be something to do with all the gazillions of dollars you end up with later on.

[notAdragon]

Hmm... buying a house wouldn't be a "dialogue patch".... d-:

is there anything else that needs to be patched up?

I remember there's a webpage dedicated to list all the inconsistency
through out the Ultima series, but forgot where it is.

notAdragon
norApremium

[SB-X]

Whats wrong with Iolo's rat infested, dirt covered, smelly old hut? Kill the wolves outside, do a little dusting on the inside, pull up some chairs and you can have a Britannian style party with all your old friends. Invite Smith if you need some entertainment.

Ok ok... thats what *I* do, but I can see how some people would prefer the large colorful mansions of the rich citizens of Britain.

[Stephan]

Or you could spend less time interior decorating or more time trying to save Britannia... but to each his own, I guess. *shrugs*

[Hacki Dragon]

>>I remember there's a webpage dedicated to list all the inconsistency
through out the Ultima series, but forgot where it is.

Time for a shameless plug:

It's MY site:
http://members.aon.at/hacki-ultima/english/index.htm
(can you create links in this forum?)

Actually, its main purpose is to make a fool of Ascension. The inconsistencies of the older Ultimas are just a goodie.

[nadir]

Yes you can create a link...
just type html...

http://members.aon.at/hacki-ultima/english/index.htm

[Soule]

Hacki's Site is the best site to see and refer to for Ultima inconsistecies. I am sure he welcomes postins from people too, if they spot any other inconsistencies as well..

[Exile]

I reckon what would be great is, after you've finished either BG or SI, is to go back into the land and have people greet you ("Hail Avatar! You saved our land!") or something of that ilk. That way, you can spend the rest of your money, buy a house and live like a fat king for the rest of your days.

..or you can just drop a sign on Lord British and take over his castle. Huzzah!

[Oblivious]

Here's a list.

--How can the Avatar have an up-to-date map of Britannia the moment he arrives there after a 200 year hiatus? A lot has changed, afterall!

--How is it that the Avatar's pocketwatch is still working after 200 years in Shamino's hands? I'd think he'd be lucky if Julia was able to keep it in working condition after 300 years... Did someone have a spell of longevity/extended shelf-life cast on it, or something..?
--Howcome swamp boots protect you from poison in the swamps when it was stated in the U4 instruction booklet that the poison is due to toxic vapors arising from the marsh? For that matter, how can you avoid it with a carpet, even?
*Howcome Jaana has just as much trouble casting magic even after you fix the Ether?
--What ever happened to Capt. Johne?
*Zelda talks about finding a book about the Avatar's adventures while cleaning out the Lycaeum basement. Yet in U7BG, there is no basement.
*What is the purpose of that set of pillars & roof north of Skara Brae with the hole in the middle of the roof? I never found any purpose to it aside from getting struck by lightning.
--Why does Natassia look just like Katrina did in U6?!
--Though he is like this somewhat in U6 also, why is it that Geoffrey acts like he's on lithium compared to how he acts in Ultimas 4 and 5? (those who have played U4 and 5 know what I'm talking about.)
--Why does Shamino not find the Ether problem annoying as well (as the moongate problem), seeing as how he's a Ranger/magic-user, and all?
--What ever happened to Iolo having magical powers? The way he talks and acts in BG and SI, you would think he didn't have so much as a hint of magic.
--Does anyone else find it rediculous that LB, when you arrive, has just made the POSSIBLE connection between Nystul's and Rudyom's insanity, whereas Geoffrey, his captain of the guard with no knowledge (nor ability) of magic whatsoever, has already figured out that this problem is plaguing all the mages. Is Geoffrey actually smarter than LB, or is he just making a generalization on mages, being a fighter, and all? (fighters don't like magic) It's not like Geoffrey gets out of the castle any more than LB does, after all (not out of the town, anyway)
--How did Geoffrey get that big scar on his face? And how come it mysteriously disappears in UW2 and Ultima Ascension?
*How come Dupre suddenly looks like a Chuck Norris wannabe in U7BG, looking to be close to 60, yet in U7SI, he looks younger than Shamino, and in Ascension, he looks about 25?!?!
*The Ferryman is evidently the only way onto Skara Brae, yet it *is* possible to land the magic carpet on the island! (it may have been overlooked, or it could be it was left there for a secret 'cheat'.)
*If you follow the instructions for viewing the Codex, why can't you view the Codex?
--Why do you need a whistle to communicate with wisps in BG? You never needed such things in Ultimas 6 and UW2....
--Why is Sin'Vraal never mentioned in Vesper?

--Why do gremlins look so much different in Ultima 7? In previous Ultimas, they were little roly-poly things with stumpy limbs and huge mouths full of sharp teeth. In Ultima 7, they look like bright green gnomes on Jenny Craig.
--Where do rogue mages get their magical powers from? All the normal mages in U7 have gone mad, and can no longer use magic. These rogue mages can still use magic, even without wands or regeants! How is this possible?!

-- In one of the books on acting, it mentions at the end that it was one of 'many' books Lord British brought with him to Britannia. Now I must ask, was it NORMAL for LB to carry 15-20 lbs worth of books with him wherever he went when he lived on Earth?

-- The book "Conquering the World in 3 Easy Steps" mentions it was written by a mad cleric, and also mentions Britannia. HOWEVER, clerics have not existed as a profession since Ultima 3, before Britannia existed.

* The book on Provisions mentions wild bears, yet none exist in the wild in Britannia.

-- In previous Ultimas, Reapers were said to be vengeful tree spirits who liked to oust humans. In the book of Flora of Britannia (or was it forests of Yew?) Reapers are described as 'being a creature which is a cross between a plant and an animal'

[Oblivious]

Note that not all those I mentioned can be fixed with a patch.....

[Neutronium Dragon]

-- Why do you need a whistle to communicate with wisps in BG? You never needed such things in Ultimas 6 and UW2....

The wisps had, in their alien notions of proper form, decided that this was the correct way for the dialogue to be initiated - they say something to this effect in the conversations.

-- In one of the books on acting, it mentions at the end that it was one of 'many' books Lord British brought with him to Britannia. Now I must ask, was it NORMAL for LB to carry 15-20 lbs worth of books with him wherever he went when he lived on Earth?

LB made more than one trip between Britannia and Earth (some of the older games' make this point). It wouldn't be too hard for him to tote along a few books on one of these subsequent trips.

-- The book "Conquering the World in 3 Easy Steps" mentions it was written by a mad cleric, and also mentions Britannia. HOWEVER, clerics have not existed as a profession since Ultima 3, before Britannia existed.

Just because they're not a defined class doesn't mean they don't exist in the world - one could argue that the Avatar is a cleric - or even that Batlin is one.

Neutronium Dragon

[notAdragon]

ok, I'm going off topic from my own thread...

But how did Shamino get to the Lands of Lord British?

We know he's in his own castle in U1. After U1 the four lands got torn
apart. This would require him to have been summoned and left for
the Lands of Lord British before the Hero boarded the time machine.

But this requirement seems odd to me, for why would LB be summoning
Shamino over, when the threat of Mondain is still present in all lands?

I guess this would be an inconsistency of U3? (cuz Shamino wasn't in
U2 at all, and was mentioned in U3).

notAdragon
norApremium

[Oblivious]

"one could argue that the Avatar is a cleric - or even that Batlin is one."

No, Batlin is a druid, LB says so himself.

[Neutronium Dragon]

Batlin implied a claim to being all eight of the classes in his little personal history. However, the fact remains that he was (at least pretending to be) a 'religious' figure/leader. In generic fantasy terms, a cleric.

Neutronium Dragon

[suraimu]

Courtesy dictionary.com:


cler·ic Pronunciation Key (klrk)
n.

A member of the clergy.

[Cthulu]

notAdragon
In my searches on the web I have came across a sight that tells the history of the Ultima series and I point you to this site now
http://home.hiwaay.net/~rgregg/ultima/h ... annia.html
If you read it all shall become very clear to you.
oh on the batling thing, isnt he a Sage?
Oh well, I hope I did the link right for ya
Cthulu

[Kurt]

Yes, Batlin is a sage.
In fantasy terms, a cleric is usually like a paladin but focuses on defense and healing rather than crusading and killing.

[Oblivious]

Yes, Batlin is a sage. But then, so are Taylor and Aimi. So is that crazy mage in Deceit (I think it was Deceit, anyway...) Geoffrey is a paladin (though he's supposed to be the Captain of the Guard and a former fighter) In short, it's a moot point what the cursor says they are if they claim to be something different. Point is, Lord British tells you Batlin is a druid, when you select the "Batlin" option of his dialogue tree.

[Kurt]

Geoffry is a paladin?
Then what character ties in with the Valour virtue! Nobody? Then there is imbalance!!!! ARGH!

[Mimu]

Batlin a druid? Right...
But wait!
when asked what his job is, he replies,
"I was once a druid. Now I am the leader and originator of the Fellowship."
So he was a druid but LB's a bit late on recent events so he hasn't figured out Batlin is now a spiritual leader, a leader of a clergy or such, thus a Cleric.

[Colourless]

I argue that Batlin is a Cleric. Taylor and Aimi are also definately clerics too. They are monks at the Abbey. You can't get anything quite 'that' obvious.

[Stephan]

But since there are no clerics in Britannia, Batlin can't possibly be one!

[(Piscatorial)]

...Oblivious wondered:
---- In one of the books on acting, it mentions at the end that it was one of 'many' books Lord British brought with him to Britannia. Now I must ask, was it NORMAL for LB to carry 15-20 lbs worth of books with him wherever he went when he lived on Earth?
...to which Neutronium Dragon replied:
-- LB made more than one trip between Britannia and Earth (some of the older games' make this point). It wouldn't be too hard for him to tote along a few books on one of these subsequent trips.

[nods solemnly] Have either of you by chance come across _Ultima: The Avatar Adventures_? There's an interview with RG at the end where he 'reveals' that Lord British is actually himself! Yes, *really*... neither a uchronic counterpart nor coincedental doppelganger, and nope, not just an in-joke. They are one and the same.

(!?!)

Don't ask me how to explain it o.O, but Rich apparently had some kinda Earth-prime setup where he'd shuttle back and forth between his dual identities as Ruler of the Universe and filthy rich game honcho. Thus, each time you finish cleaning up another of LB's messes in your Avatarly fashion, he beams back to Earth to both chronicle and commemorate your adventures in a nifty CRPG. ...which would explain the Ultima paraphenalia (posters, boxes, maps, etc.) in your room in the later game intros, yeah? (Make for charming souvenirs.)

If you think carefully about it, this would also appear to explain the last two installments in the series. Since LB was obviously trapped in Britannia when the moongates crashed, who was minding Origin during the development of Ultimas VIII and IX?

Hmmm.....

(Surely not a certain malevolent muppet-like mastermind?)

[Oblivious]

I argue that Batlin is a Cleric. Taylor and Aimi are also definately clerics too. They are monks at the Abbey. You can't get anything quite 'that' obvious.


Actually, Taylor seems most likely to be a druid. Ask him about his hobbies, or whatever (I can't remember the dialogue tree, exactly) He says something about enjoying nature the most, has lots of nature books, you can ask him about his vast knowledge of plants and animals (including wisps and emps) Seems like a druid to me, or as the Japanese say, Druidic Priest...

[broken fusion]

Who cares about all that stuff?! DOn't patch over it, or at least make it optional! All of it adds a certain thing to the game that is really really cool!

[notAdragon]

Broken fusion:
the topic said it would be "imaginary".

IE, no one is making that patch.

cheers! (-:

notAdragon
norApremium