Bringing disaffected members back into the party

[Peter Olafson]

Hi, all. I buried this question in another topic. I'm now trying to hash it out for my walkthrough and thought I'd resurrect it here.

Suppose members of your party quit on account of the Avatar's stealing ways? How to bring them back into the fold?

It's evidently do-able -- there is dialogue in BG's Usecode file for this purpose -- but I've been able to do it successfully and wonder if one of the devs here might know the mechanism for eliciting a positive response (or know if this function has been implemented under Exult).

Thanks!

Peter

[Peter Olafson]

A further question: Are the weather effects in BG purely cosmetic or are there associated effects on the game world? (A couple of books in the game suggest that there are implications for wildlife.)

Thanks!

Peter

[alagner]

When it rains you can cast spells on Ambrosia, as the rain washes away the anti-magical dust. At least some people claim it works this way, I've never had the opportunity to test it in the original, though it seems not to work properly in Exult. I.e. it works but not the way it was meant to I suppose - the magic sometimes works there, sometimes not, but it seems that it's rather place than weather dependent. Also killing Kissme doesn't work here [but I cannot compare it with the original], and, according to some walkthroughs, it should.

Note: I haven't been playing for sth about four months [yeah, I love my university ], so it might've been fixed by now. I don't know yet

Maybe someone of the Exult Team can explain it further, please? I'm really curious about it.

[Peter Olafson]

Thanks! I did know about the effect in Ambrosia and should perhaps have been clearer. I was looking for data on any -other- weather effects. As mentioned there are hints here and there that weather has other effects.

Can anyone shed light on my disaffected comrades query? I've conducted many experiments to determine what (if anything) the Avatar must do to bring the quitters back into the fold ... but it's hard to tell whether I'm just missing the key action or if this hasn't yet been implemented.

Peter

[Alex Abate Biral]

I remember doing it once with Iolo. I was at a pirate island, taking things from their camp, and Iolo seemed to decide that bloodthirst robbing pirates have as much right for their private property as anyone else. Anyway, I went into combat and killed my poor, leal companion. But not all was lost, as when I ressurrected him, he seemed to decide I had learned my lesson.

The above happened in the original version, so it may not be how it is working in Exult.

[Peter Olafson]

Thanks! That was one of my experiments. Under Exult, killing a former companion does not wipe clean his memory of your villainy. The resurrected Iolo still says he won't join thieves. I guess it just hasn't been implemented yet.

Peter

[TDI]

Thats probably because you stabbed them through the heart with a spear or cut them in half using a bladed weapon. You must make sure to kill them using a blunt weapon, like a two-handed hammer. Whacking them over the head with it will lead to a concussion, causing them to loose memory of your past unvirtuosness.

[Verlaine]

Hmm I've never had anyone leave over my stealing ways in Exult used to happen a bit back in the original though. As I recall every time it happened I ened up haveing to load a save to avoid it.

Maybe when I get home I'll load up BG and revisit my old thieving ways do some experimenting.. I haven't done much stealing lately it'sj ust easier to raid pirate cashes and sell snake venum to kessler.

--Jess

[Peter Olafson]

It happened regardless of the weapon I used. A mace, morningstar or two-handed hammer produced the same response as a sword, dagger (or torch for that matter).

Peter

[TDI]

Well, I hope you remembered to take their helmets off first.

[alagner]

And I would suggest using a "f***-off big hammer". They won't remeber a thing for sure

[Peter Olafson]

:Well, I hope you remembered to take their helmets off first.

Being that the disaffected member is no longer in the party, that would be difficult!

But, no. As this was right at the beginning of the game, Iolo wasn't wearing a helm.

Peter

[TDI]

I see. Well that explains it. At the beginning of the game, Iolos dex is one point higher than that of the Avatar. So everytime you try to whack him, he ducks away, causing the Avatar to hit him on the butt instead. Eventually he dies from excessive butt spanking without suffering the desired concussion effects.

[Wizardry Dragon]

More seriously, the original functioning as it did was a result of the death script erroneously clearing certain flags along with dead when a companion was resurrected, so they would forget "bad karma"

It would be easy to re-implement, via a usecode patch. Just have the death handler usecode clear the appropriate flags.

Cheers,
Wizardry Dragon,
Lead Designer, Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

[Peter Olafson]

Appreciate that insight; thanks!

Any clue what makes comrades who've quit the party return under Exult? Or has this simply not been implemented yet? I've experimented with all manner of redemptive possibilities but none of them seem to have an impact.

Peter

[alagner]

Was there any other way than killing them in the original, though?

[Wizardry Dragon]

It was supposed to be that if you did things that pissed them off, they just wouldn't rejoin period. As I said, if certain flags are cleared, they will rejoin. You may also have to reset the party members "alignment".

I am afraid I do not know the flags offhand.

Cheers,
Wizardry Dragon,
Lead Designer, Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

[Peter Olafson]

That's what I was beginning to think, but there is text in Usecode for their return. Hence, it stands to reason that, at least in the original game, there was some way of redeeming oneself.

Here's the relevant UCC code:

labelFunc0401_02DD:
message("\"All right, I suppose thou hast learned thy lesson. I shall rejoin.\"");
say();
UI_add_to_party(0xFFFF);
gflags[0x02EA] = false;
abort;

Peter

[Wizardry Dragon]

Supposed to be doesn't mean that it was ever put in, we know this well from Serpent Isle

I never got a disaffected member to come back except by "cheating" in my DOS diskette version of U7.

Cheers, Wizardry Dragon
Lead Designer, Ultima VII: The Feudal Lands

[alagner]

Wizardry Dragon, I managed once or twice to get Iolo back to the party, but I have completely no idea how or on what basis. AFAIR [as it's been ages since I played the original DOS version on my 486SX] I did it just by talking to him a couple of times, on sth like fifth or third time he agreed to rejoin. It is definetely not a matter of time - but heck, I have no idea what else can it depend on.

The same thing about Detect Trap spell - in my first version [Complete U7 CD, but the CD got broken, so I have bought Ultima Collection] it worked perfectly, for example it 'marked' the walls shooting with arrows in Deceit and I'm 100% sure of it. In the UC version I have now it doesn't - I even asked about it here and was replied that it's correct, as this spell is broken.

How many different versions of the game were released, btw?
Or maybe only Polish edition was so messed up that Detect trap worked and party members sometimes were coming back?
I know it may sound stupid, but when I called the hotline once [as our distribution company forgot about copy protection answers COMPLETELY and I was "Oinking" at the very beginning of SI all the time] I was replied that I should "look on the Internet, as the game is really a old one and no one will care" and "this whole mess is the result of releasing U9 at the same time, we're sorry, we haven't checked the box and CD contents properly".
So seriously - does anyone have the knowledge of the amount of released versions? Maybe there are such slight differences and that's the key...

[Dominus]

I think we have a pretty good overview of the released versions and I'm also sure that the UC version is the same as the complete u7 version.

[Malignant Manor]

Detect trap is broken in BG under The Complete Ultima 7 (at least, the English version). Here's a topic about it.

[marzo]

Party members that have left due to thievery were supposed to rejoin after 1 hour of leaving. There was the *slight* detail, however, that the associated usecode game timer (number 11 from the dumps) was never started (and even in the cases when it was set, such as Jaana's healing, it had its bugs in BG).

Getting them to rejoin in the original was luck: luck that the time elapsed from whatever the timer defaults to up to the current game time is one hour or more.

[Peter Olafson]

Thank you, Marzo. Has that luck been carried over into Exult? (If so, my luck is very bad.)

Peter

[marzo]

Nope. Exult always returns zero if the timer is left uninitialized, hence the check will always fail. It is possible that the originals used a high value for the timer, but that is hard to test.

[Petrell]

Welcome back Marzo You had me worried a bit there with your sudden absence. Nice to see you're energetic as always

[Peter Olafson]

Thanks for your detailed help on this, Marzo. (And sorry for the delay in saying so!) One last thing, if I may: Is this feature scheduled for repair in a future edition of Exult?

Peter

[marzo]

That feature has been added already; some two weeks ago, in fact. It should result in party members almost always rejoining, like it happens in the original.