This topic may have already been discussed before - if so, I apologize. Has there been any discussion on whether or not to allow you to actually cure Cantra by using one of the waters (I forget which) on her?
Leaving her stark raving mad on Monk Isle always bugged me in the original game, and I think it would be perfectly acceptable to just about any hardcore continuity fan to "fix" this through Exult.
In fact, I remember somebody from one of the newsgroups saying that the dialogue for her after she is cured is even in the code, but it just never got added.
Cantra?
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Re: Cantra?
It's in our feature request database. It may get fixed after the 1.0 release. Or maybe never. There is so much you could do to restore the original plot....
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Read the documentation and the FAQ! There is no excuse for not reading them! RTFM
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Read the documentation and the FAQ! There is no excuse for not reading them! RTFM
Read the Rules!
We do not support Piracy/Abandonware/Warez!
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corbomite
Re: Cantra?
lol - thanks, suraimu. Actually it is from my UDIC name - Corbomite Dragon.
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suraimu
Re: Cantra?
That would be cool, a dragon that, if struck, destroyed the planet
it was on.
it was on.
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Thomas Decker
Re: Cantra?
By the way, how did Cantra and Gwenno become affected with a Bane of Chaos?
We know that Batlin released them from their prison in the order shrines (discipline, logic, ...) and caught them somehow. In worm gems, likely, but we don't know. One or two of them escaped obviously, infecting the two girls, but leaving them after they were killed. What strikes me is that Batlin wasn't present at the execution of Gwenno to trap the Bane. So it likely passed on. But to a girl several miles southwards? rather unlikely. Perhaps Hazard had orders from Batlin to kill her, and the fat sage harvested the Bane directly thereafter, before her body was left for the Gwani.
What do you think? One or two banes?
Which Water would YOU use to cure her?
I understand she talks very much the same stuff like Gwenno, but we have so many wells to chose from... its boring to cure three person with the same water, anyway.
We know that Batlin released them from their prison in the order shrines (discipline, logic, ...) and caught them somehow. In worm gems, likely, but we don't know. One or two of them escaped obviously, infecting the two girls, but leaving them after they were killed. What strikes me is that Batlin wasn't present at the execution of Gwenno to trap the Bane. So it likely passed on. But to a girl several miles southwards? rather unlikely. Perhaps Hazard had orders from Batlin to kill her, and the fat sage harvested the Bane directly thereafter, before her body was left for the Gwani.
What do you think? One or two banes?
Which Water would YOU use to cure her?
I understand she talks very much the same stuff like Gwenno, but we have so many wells to chose from... its boring to cure three person with the same water, anyway.
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Neutronium Dragon
Re: Cantra?
Torissio's talk does indicate that Batlin was using Worm Gems as well; it seems most likely that Batlin was the one who killed the bane-possessed Gwenno as well - there certainly isn't anyone else in the area who had the power to do it.
Neutronium Dragon
Neutronium Dragon
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Colourless
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Re: Cantra?
So who was the third Bane?
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Neutronium Dragon
Re: Cantra?
It's been ages, but I think both Gwenno and Cantra ended up possessed by Wantonness, one after the other. Unfortunately, I don't recall any indication as to whom the other two ended up taking control of.
Neutronium Dragon
Neutronium Dragon
Re: Cantra?
from a book:
How we got to this place, I am not certain, for I was blindfolded while we were in the doing of it. All I can say is that my master knows powerful magics, which allow us to step aside from the barriers of this physical world. Thus, I find myself in the frozen north, in the abandoned sanctuary of a long dead people. Here, we have slain a Beast of Ice, and captured a Daemon's Soul.
At the first streak of dawn, we travelled overland across the snowy wastes to the great mountains which my master calls the Peaks of Skullcrusher.
In the depths beneath the mountains, we sought another of these Daemons. This proved to be a difficult task. We had to keep a strict watch to discover him in his hiding place. Finally, we trapped the second prisoner, whose name is Anarchy.
We searched all over the Skullcrusher mountains for this bane.
Then, we travelled by magical means until we found ourselves in the tangled forest of the northlands. The last Daemon had eluded us in the Plains of Ice, but in his new form he was not so swift. Now his trail hath led us to this ruined castle.
I will finish this entry later tonight.
How we got to this place, I am not certain, for I was blindfolded while we were in the doing of it. All I can say is that my master knows powerful magics, which allow us to step aside from the barriers of this physical world. Thus, I find myself in the frozen north, in the abandoned sanctuary of a long dead people. Here, we have slain a Beast of Ice, and captured a Daemon's Soul.
At the first streak of dawn, we travelled overland across the snowy wastes to the great mountains which my master calls the Peaks of Skullcrusher.
In the depths beneath the mountains, we sought another of these Daemons. This proved to be a difficult task. We had to keep a strict watch to discover him in his hiding place. Finally, we trapped the second prisoner, whose name is Anarchy.
We searched all over the Skullcrusher mountains for this bane.
Then, we travelled by magical means until we found ourselves in the tangled forest of the northlands. The last Daemon had eluded us in the Plains of Ice, but in his new form he was not so swift. Now his trail hath led us to this ruined castle.
I will finish this entry later tonight.
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Thomas Decker
Re: Cantra?
So what do we learn about the matter? The first bane (Wantonness) possessed the body of a Beast of Ice (probably a Gwani, after Gwenno was killed by Hazard the Trapper.)
Anarchy was captured beneath Skullcrusher.
The third bane, Insanity, was in Cantra's body.
Therefore, the water of Logic is the appropriate cure.
Anarchy was captured beneath Skullcrusher.
The third bane, Insanity, was in Cantra's body.
Therefore, the water of Logic is the appropriate cure.
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GeniusLoci
Re: Cantra?
No, the ice creature they killed must have contained insanity, since the third bane
was wantoness. I assume that it simply eluded them, since when Gwenno was killed
it fled and found Cantra.
Cantra says the same thing as Gwenno/Dupre.
Though Dupre's ("I must have ale!" "Bring a woman to me!") sounded fairly normal
to me.
Does anyone remember what Iolo says before you cure him?
was wantoness. I assume that it simply eluded them, since when Gwenno was killed
it fled and found Cantra.
Cantra says the same thing as Gwenno/Dupre.
Though Dupre's ("I must have ale!" "Bring a woman to me!") sounded fairly normal
to me.
Does anyone remember what Iolo says before you cure him?
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Thomas_Decker
Re: Cantra?
Gwenno was possessed by Wantonness, yet was killed by Hazard the Trapper. Either Wantonness was caught thereafter in the body of a Gwani, or somehow went from the northernmost parts of the continent to the southernmost city to possess a little girl - Cantra. I think the first option is more likely, I think.
Therefore I think that Cantra was inflicted by Insanity, since it surely wasn't Anarchy, as the book proves.
Therefore I think that Cantra was inflicted by Insanity, since it surely wasn't Anarchy, as the book proves.
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Stephan
Re: Cantra?
Eh? I was pretty sure Cantra was possessed by Wantonness. After she's resurrected, she goes on and on about how she craves the Avatar's flesh and stuff like that.
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GeniusLoci
Re: Cantra?
The book ALSO states that they CAUGHT the Bane that they got when they killed
the ice creature (and I do not think that a Gwani counts as an ice creature. I think
it was either an Ice Dragon or an Ice Elemental). It also says that they tracked the
THIRD Bane, the LAST Bane to "this castle". Remember, you find the log where he
dropped it in Shamino's castle when you meet up with them.
And, as stated before, Cantra's dialouge fits in with Wantoness, NOT Insanity.
Also, it's perfectly logical for the Bane to run as far away from the northern wastes
as possible, because it had been chased by Batlin for quite some time; and the
Banes ALSO have the power of teleportation; don't forget that. And, if you want to
stretch it, it could've gotten hit by a Teleport storm, but this is stretching it a bit
much.
the ice creature (and I do not think that a Gwani counts as an ice creature. I think
it was either an Ice Dragon or an Ice Elemental). It also says that they tracked the
THIRD Bane, the LAST Bane to "this castle". Remember, you find the log where he
dropped it in Shamino's castle when you meet up with them.
And, as stated before, Cantra's dialouge fits in with Wantoness, NOT Insanity.
Also, it's perfectly logical for the Bane to run as far away from the northern wastes
as possible, because it had been chased by Batlin for quite some time; and the
Banes ALSO have the power of teleportation; don't forget that. And, if you want to
stretch it, it could've gotten hit by a Teleport storm, but this is stretching it a bit
much.
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Thomas_Decker
Re: Cantra?
Yeah. So they caught Gwenno's bane in the northern wastes.
And since Cantra has scenes in this castle, but there is no proof whatsoever that yet another bane was in this castle, I suggest that Cantra's bane was the one that they tracked to the castle. I know that Cantras dialogue mathces Gwennos. But IMHO that does not prove much, since they have not included any option to have her cured. Her dialogue is a dead end, and they could have used any dialogue.
Gwenno obviously was meant to join you at least temporarily, leading me into believing that they tinkered with this story arc.
And since Cantra has scenes in this castle, but there is no proof whatsoever that yet another bane was in this castle, I suggest that Cantra's bane was the one that they tracked to the castle. I know that Cantras dialogue mathces Gwennos. But IMHO that does not prove much, since they have not included any option to have her cured. Her dialogue is a dead end, and they could have used any dialogue.
Gwenno obviously was meant to join you at least temporarily, leading me into believing that they tinkered with this story arc.
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ToasterThief
Re: Cantra?
Gwenno can join you, very very late into SI. After a certain event involving the Chaos Serpent.
As for the banes--
Notice how there is an Ice Dragon slain BEFORE you get to the North Caves. This is likely the Ice Beast referred to in the logs.
It APPEARS that one bane was supposed to be in Cantra, and a DIFFERENT one was supposed to be in Gwenno. Given that there's some coding errors in this part of the Game anyways, it's a safe bet that the "chaotic" dialogue for Gwenno and Cantra was supposed to be different.
If this doesn't work, there's also the theory that Angus held the missing Bane in him (the missing husband of Devra who vanished with Batlin.)
As for the banes--
Notice how there is an Ice Dragon slain BEFORE you get to the North Caves. This is likely the Ice Beast referred to in the logs.
It APPEARS that one bane was supposed to be in Cantra, and a DIFFERENT one was supposed to be in Gwenno. Given that there's some coding errors in this part of the Game anyways, it's a safe bet that the "chaotic" dialogue for Gwenno and Cantra was supposed to be different.
If this doesn't work, there's also the theory that Angus held the missing Bane in him (the missing husband of Devra who vanished with Batlin.)
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Thomas Decker
Re: Cantra?
ToasterThief, coming to my rescue! Thank you!
Means that
Angus = Anarchy (Fled from Batlin until they caught him beneath Skullcrusher)
Gwenno = Wantonness (after slain by Hazard with the glass sword, possesses a nearby Ice Dragon, which is slain in turn by Batlin)
Cantra = Insanity (Fled from Batlin, but is caught in Shamino's castle.)
Wait - is there a fresh human corpse in Skullcrusher which could have been Angus?
Means that
Angus = Anarchy (Fled from Batlin until they caught him beneath Skullcrusher)
Gwenno = Wantonness (after slain by Hazard with the glass sword, possesses a nearby Ice Dragon, which is slain in turn by Batlin)
Cantra = Insanity (Fled from Batlin, but is caught in Shamino's castle.)
Wait - is there a fresh human corpse in Skullcrusher which could have been Angus?
Re: Cantra?
That makes a lot of sense. It is obvious Cantra and Gwenno were possessed by a bane, but I never thought about Angus from Sleeping Bull. But Devra mentioned that she heard noises in the cellar the night Angus disappeared. There are lots of secret tunnels in the cellar, but no fresh corpse. I will have to go back and re-check SkullCrusher for a fresh male corpse. But how did Angus get to Skullcrusher? He couldn't have used the Serpent Gate, he would have needed a jaw bone.
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Thomas_Decker
Angus the Anarch
Angus *could* have been kidnapped by Batlin, who hesitated to kill him since Angus the Anarch was the first bane he came across.
It is more likely, though, that the Chaos bane escaped using Silverpate's teleporters in the cellar room, which end in the Inn room. It is very likely that Banes are immune to the Gorlab enchantment (Cantra fled to Shamino's castle as well), so Angus would have been able to reach Skullcrusher without difficulty. Since he was a Chaos bane, he would have known the password anyway. Batlin was always at his heels, following him to the Great Forest using the Serpent jawbone he stole from Ensorcio after he was unable to pass Gorlab swamp.
It is more likely, though, that the Chaos bane escaped using Silverpate's teleporters in the cellar room, which end in the Inn room. It is very likely that Banes are immune to the Gorlab enchantment (Cantra fled to Shamino's castle as well), so Angus would have been able to reach Skullcrusher without difficulty. Since he was a Chaos bane, he would have known the password anyway. Batlin was always at his heels, following him to the Great Forest using the Serpent jawbone he stole from Ensorcio after he was unable to pass Gorlab swamp.
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corbomite
Re: Angus the Anarch
Would the Banes really need to make use of the Serpent Gates to teleport over long distances?
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Oblivious
Re: Angus the Anarch
"Batlin had a jawbone. Batlin was at the sleeping bull when angus disappeard."
Ah, that's what I thought. (which was why I mentioned kidnapping)
Ah, that's what I thought. (which was why I mentioned kidnapping)
Re: Angus the Anarch
I have yet to find a fresh male corpse in Skullcrusher, but in Spinebreaker, there's a small room with lots of fresh corpses. Also in the room is a table with a serpent statue on it and behind the room is a bed with some powdered kegs.
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Thomas Decker
Re: Angus the Anarch
Ah, found it. They *could* be Angus and a few of Batlin's henchmen - though I suspect they're Vasculio's victims the skeleton's journal tells about.
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Ash
Re: Angus the Anarch
There is a corpse at the second to last door before you reach the order wall of lights - He's wearing a "pirate suit" and is carrying a set of forks and knives, as a lot of the innkeepers I've slaughtered had on them. (Im referring to "virtual" in-the-game Innkeepers of course) I'd always assumed this was Angus. As for him being affected by a bane, there's no real evidence for it in the script, but I guess you could be right. (? In Bizarro World ?)
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Thomas Decker
Re: Angus the Anarch
That's Angus? I always thought him to be one of Batlin's fellows. He lies in Spinebreaker, meaning that although he could be Angus, he could never be the Anarchy Bane.
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Ash
Re: Angus the Anarch
yeah, I always assumed that the plot is suggesting that angus is forced to show Batlin to Silverpate's serpent gate rather than needing him because he was possesed by a bane.
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Thomas Decker
Re: Angus the Anarch
But there is no corpse in the Bull's cellar... yet in Spinebreaker. If Angus wasn't possessed, why did Batlin bother to drag him along all the way while he as well could have him killed? Either Angus went with him voluntarily (I doubt that) or he was still needed for something... (That's where the bane theory comes in.)
As to the corpse with the knives... I always assumed him to be one of Batlins hapless goons, who stole the spoons along the way, but triggered a trap. There is a room with kitchen utensils at the entrance of Spinebreaker IIRC.
As to the corpse with the knives... I always assumed him to be one of Batlins hapless goons, who stole the spoons along the way, but triggered a trap. There is a room with kitchen utensils at the entrance of Spinebreaker IIRC.
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Neutronium Dragon
Re: -
The text of a diary on the body of one of Batlin's henchmen (kitchen of Shamino's castle, if I recall) suggests that Gwenno and Cantra may both have been afflicted by Wantonness - that it took possession of Gwenno first, and when she was killed, managed to escape and landed in Cantra's body instead.
This also makes sense in terms of timing - if a bane had possessed Cantra when they were released, she wouldn't have been in Monitor still at the start of the game, when the Banes had already been free for some time. On the other hand, Wantonness escaping Gwenno's death and hopping into her then does fit about right.
Neutronium Dragon
This also makes sense in terms of timing - if a bane had possessed Cantra when they were released, she wouldn't have been in Monitor still at the start of the game, when the Banes had already been free for some time. On the other hand, Wantonness escaping Gwenno's death and hopping into her then does fit about right.
Neutronium Dragon