Do you think the Goblins shouldve been Orcs instead?

[Vasculio294]

See, Gargoyles come in all shapes and sizes. But Goblins on the other hand, are smaller than humans and usually have a yellowish skin color.

Orcs are green skinned and look alot alike, the U7SI Goblin race.

Anyone here played Bioware's Neverwinter Nights and Baldurs Gate series?

[MV]

I guess D&D never made it to serpent isle...........

[Dominus]

I wonder why people insist that all fantasy has to be the same?
If the people at Origin decided that goblins in SI are as big as humans and are green coloured, so be it.
I *think* the SI goblins were supposed to be martians, but then they had to cut the plot short and made them goblins instead.

[Dangus]

Um, Martians? That would have been pretty dumb.....

[w8dq4tm]

I was just thinking about what happened to orcs. They were big in Ultima 3, 4, 5. Can't remember about 6.

Then, in U7 they just weren't around anymore.

Trolls didn't fit under the bridges either.

[Gradilla Dragon_]

In D&D, from where Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate come, troglodytes (well known cavemen) and kobolds (dog men) are reptilian, harpies (well known bird of prey women) have bat wings and no feathers or bird-like features at all, and there are many other things very different from what we have gotten to know in other fantasy worlds.

Don't bother to compare anything from D&D with that of a completely different fantasy world.

[Tristan de Inés]

It has nothing todo with D&D. I`m not sure, but I believe Tolkien was one of the first to introduce orcs as the green skinned uglies they are popularly regarded as. As for trolls, I think the connection of trolls and bridges comes from legends that go back a long way.

So regardless of D&D, I do believe there are at least some rough guidelines on what trolls, orcs, etc. are supposed to be and how they are supposed to look and behave, and these guidelines where created by stories of legend or by groundbreaking artists such as Tolkien.

Still, I agree with Dominus that fantasy is just that... fantasy. So if someone decides on having pink trolls that can fly or goblins that actually look like orcs, its just fine with me.

[Tristan de Inés]

By the way, Laberynth of Worlds also featured green, orc-like goblins that look very much like the ones on SI. I wonder if there is a connection.

[LinkDragon]

Speaking of bridges and trolls.. I remember a long time ago, when I was playing U7, I actually encountered a troll that came out from under a bridge. Of course he was hostile but it was just a little.. odd. It's been too long for me to remember where it happened at, but I know for a fact that it happened. Has anyone else had this happen?

[Garrett]

Yes, there's one bridge where trolls spawn, usually two at a time.

I can't recall where it is (somewhere near Minoc/Cove I think) but Shamino will say "watch out for bridge trolls!" when you approach it so you know you've found the right bridge.

[WWWWolf]

That bridge is south down the road from Iolo's hut, unless I'm badly mistaken. It's definitely along the Yew road.

It's possible there's one in Minoc/Cove area too but that definitely happened in the Yew bridge too.

[LinkDragon]

Awesome! For some reason, bridge trolls are neat. Heh.
I'll check out that area and see if I can find them again.

[Warder]

The SI goblins and the Labyrinth of Worlds goblins are definitely connected. That's how the Avatar got one of the Blackrock Serpents after all.

[Vasculio294]

The difference between the Troll of Ultima 7 and the Neverwinter Nights one, is...

Ultima7 Trolls - Had human flesh colored skin wore animal furrs, were muscled and had mohawks.

Neverwinter Nights Trolls - Had green skin, tall and skinny, with some muscle. Had twiggy hair.

[Gradilla Dragon_]

You forgot to mention the long pointy nose on the NWN trolls

[Daemongar]

Yeah - why the heck aren't D&D trolls like JRR Tolkien trolls?! In The Hobbit they are like big 9' humans, iirc, and can't stand sunlight. Wait a second... U7 Trolls are more like Tolkien trolls, which TSR stole trolls from and most of their ideas. link here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolls_%28Middle-earth%29

Kinda strange that Ultima is more true to fantasy roots than D&D, eh?

[Gradilla Dragon_]

I thougt Ultima was more like Chronicles of Narnia than Lord of the Rings.

[Vasculio294]

Thats a way of looking at it!

[drcode]

I'm pretty sure it was inspired more by D&D, as RG was a player when he was young.

[Gradilla Dragon_]

If I recall correctly, Richard Garriott had his computer desk inside a closet. He spent many hours programming the first Ultima inside the closet. He loved the idea of traveling as a youth to a magical land where he becomes
a king.

[Tristan de Inés]

Just to fuel the fire on the original point of the thread...
Ultima 4 features green, humanoid.... orcs

[LinkDragon]

RG really had his desk in his closet?
That's really strange.. I've always wanted to put my computer desk inside a closet!

[Paladin]

Orcs, Goblins, Kobolds, what's the difference?

Guys, there's a little trivia fact I'd like to share with everyone here. Orcs and Goblins and Kobolds are all the SAME thing in folklore! They're just different names for them, that's all.

[Gradilla Dragon_]

Don't forget Brownies!

[Paladin]

Ahh yes, and the fact that elves used to be tiny finger sized creatures who helped out old shoemakers and Santa Claus.

P.S. If you get the shoemaker referance, then you REALLY read a lot of books as a kid!

[BigFreak]

I was thinking about that shoemaker story not long ago. I came to the conclusion that in a state of extreme worry the shoemaker chucked back a bottle of whiskey, lost all memory of the night, BUT in a drunken night of partying, made the full order of shoes. My interpretation.

[Gradilla Dragon_]

Or you could think it a different way: Maybe the shoemaker was so quick that people couldn't believe he was doing the work alone.

[Belial]

This is an extract from Tolkein Beastairy

Subject: Orc, Snaga, Uruk-Hai, Goblin
In the First Age of Darkness; a powerful being captured many of the newly risen race of Elves and took them to his dungeons. With hideous acts of torture he made ruined and terrible forms of life. From these he bred a goblin race of slaves who were loathsome, as the Elves were fair.
These were the Orcs, a multitude brought forth in shapes twisted by pain and hate. The only joy of these creatures was in the pain of others, for the blood that flowed within the Orcs was both black and cold. Their stunted form was hideous: bent, bow legged and squat. Their arms were long and strong as the apes of the South and their skin was black as wood that has been charred by flame. The jagged fangs in their wide mouth were yellow, their tongues red and thick, their nostrils and face were broad and flat. Their eyes were crimson gashes, like narrow slits in black iron behind which hot coals burn.
These Orcs were fierce warriors, for they feared more greatly their master than any enemy; and perhaps death was preferable to the torment of Orcish life. They were cannibals, ruthless and terrible and often heir rending claws and slavering fangs were gored with the bitter flesh and the foul black blood of their own kind. Orcs were spawned as thralls of the Master of Darkness; therefore they were fearful of light, for it weakened and burned them. Their eyes were night seeing and they were dwellers of foul pits and tunnels.
Through terrible sorcery a new breed of greater orcs was created. These Uruk-Hai were grown to the height of men, yet straight limbed and strong. Though they were truly orcs – black skinned, black blooded, lynx-eyes , fanged and claw handed – Uruk-Hai did not languish in sunlight and did not fear it at all. Clad in black armour, often carrying straight swords and long yew bows as well as many of the evil and poisoned Orcs weapons. The Uruk-Hai were made elite men-at-arms and most often were the high commanders and captains of the lesser Orcs. The most common breed was called Snaga which in the word of men is ‘slave’.

[Paladin]

Good info on the Orcs there, but I was talking about traditional folklore, not Tolkien.

And for all those who said that Ultima is more inline with Tolkien than the rest, I'd have to agree, mostly anyway. At least Britiannia is not filled with pointy eared arrogent elves around!