Ultima: Odyssey is dead

ToasterThief v. 5.7 · Post by **ToasterThief v. 5.7** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:19 pm

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/06/30 ... 01727.html

I guess if the fans want another Ultima game, they'll have to make it themselves. If I could code, I would make one with the Exult engine. Pity.

Post by **Dominus** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:24 am

I'm not really surprised or even the least bit sad about this.

MV · Post by MV » Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:54 am

Celebrate good times.

Being a true ultima fan, I would have spat on that game.

EB would have kicked me out for spitting on game boxes in their stores.

Unhappy Ultima X fan · Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:44 am

Oh no i am really unhappy, the first MMORPG i want to play is dead i don't want to play World of Warcraft, all screenshots and movies were so good
i hope that they will make an ultima x but not an online game, now i must wait and wait untill a good game will be relased the same happend to Sam & Max 2 the development status was 80% but they killed it

Daemongar · Post by **Daemongar** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:03 am

The only thin I was looking forward to was ripping it to shreads - probably the general concensus. Even from the start it was horror inducing - reminded one of a combination Doom2/U9 (and maybe a little DaoC.)

There was NO heart in that game - one could argue that U9/UO they at least tried to be ultimas but completely wanked it - but UX was just a bad, bad idea and I'm glad they flushed it. The world doens't need any more horrible ideas.

Unhappy Ultima X fan · Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:35 am

I agree with you that the game has no heart but i wanted the MMORPG not an Ultima title When the game was named XYZ i felt the same

Achile · Post by **Achile** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:37 am

An Ultima without RG is not an Ultima

Gradilla Dragon · Post by **Gradilla Dragon** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:59 pm

Want a MMORPG? Don't waste your time with EA. Check something from NCSoft instead. There is City of Heroes, Lineage 1 & 2, and the upcoming Guild Wars and Tabula Rasa. All MMORPG, and Richard Garriott works at NCSoft.

G.Z · Post by **G.Z** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:18 pm

It would be cool to have an 'Exult Online', if I had more time, I could contribute with some coding.

Somebody interested in doing it?

Phyrain · Post by **Phyrain** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:44 am

I agree with all you guys about UXO, I thought the graphics looked really childish, and it didn't feel anything like a Ultima game, if it didn't had a Ultima for its name, I might have consider it to be an interesting MMORPG.

But I feel sorry for the designers, and programmers who spent a year and a half on the project, to see it all dissappear because some EA CEO thinks that UXO is not going to be profitable, taking away all that effort that was put into designing new ways of playing MMORPGs.

Unhappy Ultima X fan · Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:51 am

Yes Guildwars will be a good game and it's free or?

PanSola · Post by **PanSola** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 7:07 am

GW is a pay-once for an account, and pay for each optional expansion, but no monthly/subscription fees. Tabula Rasa is gonna be great too (-:

but that's getting OT d-;

Jammet · Post by **Jammet** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:56 am

Another one bites the dust.

I so much dream of another Ultima game. A _real_ Ultima game. One made by Lord British or, at least with him helping out, or one that he's seen and liked.

And yes, it definately should be made in the Exult Engine. 3D .. oh well, that's one thing. But I don't want to buy a commercial game for the sole purpose of playing a completely different game =).

Not that I wouldn't. But I would wait until after that game is finished.

Green Bamboo Mystery Peanut · Sat Jul 03, 2004 10:59 am

Maybe the next Ultima should have been a simulation/"communication" game. Like, you'd start out and pick your Avatar and arrive in a town full of colorful anthropomorphic animals, and you buy a house. The house is totally blank except for a stereo and a box, so you get to decorate it with furniture, wallpaper and flooring. The thing is, you have to pay off your debt to the friendly shopkeeper. However, when you pay off your debt, he upgrades your house! It could be called Ultima Crossing...

Just kidding ^.^...

This sort of totally sucks for the devlopers who worked on the game, but really, I am glad it's dead. This venture seemed more like dead-horse beating than anything else...totally pointless. Perhaps it was their attempt to revitalize a franchise and make a new cash cow.

Then again, I've never played a MMORPG before, so what do I know?

Gradilla Dragon · Post by **Gradilla Dragon** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:25 pm

They probably intended to win back the support and love from the majority of us cranky old timers and truthful Ultima fans, the Ultima Dragons. Failing to do so, they just backed up in defeat

RazorBlade · Post by **RazorBlade** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 3:34 am

They realized there is no room for more competition when EQ2 and WoW come out. They'd have barely scratched break even, if at all.

Guild Wars won't be a MMO btw, it will be a Diablo ripoff.

Lineage 2 is a PvP gankfest, CoH is interessting for a couple weeks.

If you want an interessting MMO stick with SOE or Blizzard. SWG is great, EQ2 seems to be very similar to that and WoW will probably be the most fleshed out basic MMO out there, if you are a 'level up and gather better items' type.

UX sounded nice, but it was already dead before they cancelled it, 1 year too late to even have a chance.

Post by **Dominus** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 3:50 am

They probably intended to win back the support and love from the majority of us cranky old timers and truthful Ultima fans, the Ultima Dragons.

after the U9 debacle there was not much chance for this to happen...

Gradilla Dragon · Post by **Gradilla Dragon** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:50 am

after the U9 debacle there was not much chance for this to happen...

They are slow thinkers, you know?

They did not see much future in UO in the beginning, and now that they saw it worked, they are fully supporting it. It was expected that they would think they could regain the trust of a community whose feelings they hurt so much.

Gradilla Dragon · Post by **Gradilla Dragon** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 8:55 am

RazorBlade, everyone has a different taste for games. Even if you didn't like CoH, many people did. Even if I don't like UO and EQ, millions of people do.

And GW is a new kind of MMORPG. Doesn't the name say something? GUILD WARS! You will be part of a large guild and go to war against another. There will be a persistant world and characters. Isn't that massive multiplayer?

When EQ2 and WoW are released, we will see if they are really that good. I do not think they will meet my expectations, though.

PanSola · Post by **PanSola** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 11:14 am

Gradilla:

Well, for GUildWars, when you actually fight and stuff, you play in an instanced arena.

So while each district of the town may have millions of players walking around and trading stuff and talking, when you are doing battle, each map/area will probably be limited to (at most) hundreds of players.

Still much bigger and different than D2, but not necessarily "massive" in the original sense. Same with Tabula Rasa, which I'm very looking forward to (-:

Unhappy Ultima X fan · Sun Jul 04, 2004 11:25 am

In WoW will be the same the missions you do are only for you and your party, i mean you're the only who are on this area but in WoW is one world map with everyone or am i wrong?

RazorBlade · Post by **RazorBlade** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 12:06 pm

CoH lacks long term content as most everyone agrees upon who has played a couple weeks. I am sure not everyone agrees here though, I have no problem with different opinions, that's just my opinion.

I played the E3 version of guild wars, the instantanced areas were limited to linear paths (go from a to b and kill everything in between), the game did support only small parties at that point and the interface didn't hint at being able to allow a lot more people into a single group.

It looks and feels A LOT like diablo 2, just that you have graphically chat rooms, overall it's the same. Don't know about the guild aspect in the title though, perhaps there is a completely different aspect to the game (which has to be a drastic change from the main part.)

Also don't think in thousands, more in dozens to perhaps 100-200 people in one place (chat room.)

PanSola · Post by **PanSola** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 6:51 pm

The focus of GuildWars is supposed to be the PvP stuff (which was in E3 also, but not sure if you played those). It plays a lot different from the one-team missions.

The biggest mission (Rotscale the bone dragon at stone summit) there allowed 8 players on one team, but I don't see a problem with the interface supporting 16 players on one team. So if you allow multiple teams in a PvP game (think alliances and clans in Lineage II), it's not hard to go up to hundreds.

Skutarth · Post by **Skutarth** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 8:05 pm

DEATH TO UXO!!!

Thank god they stopped that piece of crap. Though it wasn't the reason it was stopped, if it was released, it would forever end the Ultima Series by making an MMORPG part of the series' plot. I'm so happy this is dead. Screw all of you who are sad it's dead. I want another game with heart and depth such as Ultima 7. This is why I'm 15 and always hang out here. I love this game, even if it IS as old as me. Playing a game just for looks is like going to a movie that's all action and no plot. It leaves a sour taste in your mouth. It's like biting into a delicious looking cake, only to find out it's made of dirt. Excuse me for the analogy, but Ultima 7 is the crappy looking cake in the corner. It looks like crap (except for now, because of the Exult engine), but it's the richest cake you'll ever taste.

It's as Bruce Campbell says in his autobiography, "If Chins Could Kill":
main-stream film: 100,000 people seeing a single film ten times.
cult film: Ten people seeing a single film 100,000 times

It works the same way for games. This is why the forums are great here. These people aren't warez hunters, these are people who stick with the game and love it. This is a great game that's not well known. This is why I say to make it into an online game at some point. It's not known to many people, and is understood by even less. The people who know this game love it, and that's the final point. Only the people who would post at places like this are the ones who would play. We are all the people who wouldn't ruin it like Ultima Online.

I thank the Exult team and the entire Ultima community for supporting such a great series. I say you should all continue improving and enjoying the series.

Perhaps we will one day have a deserving title once again in the Ultima series. Any of you who supported UXO should be shot. There should only be an Ultima X. An Ultima X that follows the series. An Ultima X that has the same feeling as the games we all know and love. We can only hope.

Tristan de Inés · Post by **Tristan de Inés** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 6:26 am

I played UO on a Sphere server for a while, and I had some pretty good moments off it.
The problem with UO is, that most people only want to make more money and improve their skills to have a strong character, so you have everybody doing repetitive, incredibly boring actions over and over instead of actually interacting with each other and the world.

Kagehi Kossori · Post by **Kagehi Kossori** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 9:39 am

Bad design.. It is the same with text based muds. If the 'primary' or 'only' means to gain exp, level and get stronger involves hacking things to death, then that is what 90% of the people will be doing, over and over and over. There are really only two solutions. De-emphasize the combat, which is nearly impossible without making it total RP oriented and useless to fight at all (other than to 'solve' some quest). Or just give up on trying to have peopel not hacking stuff to pieces and at least make the monsters more interesting. Unfortunately, the later never happens on text based systems, despite the comparitive ease of designing an adaptive system where new monsters come it, old ones adapt, etc. In a graphical game, this isn't even practical.

It would be nice to see a usable balance between the extremes, but in general you have RP people or hack-n-slash people, you rarely manage to draw both groups using the same game. The two view points are just too damn different. Heck, the Mud I play on has an RP society and some quests *require* you to solve them as a team. The RP society faltered within a month, due to no new players coming in with an interest in it and the few that where asking to have it being, in the end, forced to focus more on killing things. The party required quests generally only created a few clicks that hang out, and for the most part kill stuff together, but don't truely interact otherwise.

If you can find a solution that finally solves this issue, but doesn't go so far to the RP side of it that you lose half of the potential players, then good for you. No one else has *ever* managed it.

Ksaturn · Post by **Ksaturn** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:59 am

Well... Have the RP part of it primarily and 'quests' or 'rp situations' determine experience partially(RPs level much faster but monsters do give you some). And have killing things more related to idea of 'Treasure!!!!'.... In RolePlaying you don't kill mosters to earn 'exp' you kill them for GOLD! or Revenge! or Morals! ect. thus in such a system you need to make money about as useful as exp.

For Example:

A hack-n-slasher goes out into the wilds and kicks monster bootay and then drags a big sack of gold into town to buy armor/weps/magic/ECT.
EXP level = 3 Equipment lvl = 6

Elsewhere a RolePlayer at the same time solved a crime piece by piece... gaining exp at each intreval.
EXP level = 6 Equip level = 3

Total power levels are relativly the same... however the RPer will be more focused on logic and interaction so lets say might gain more NPC allies or get discounts in the town he aided(espesially on training)... whereas the other now has really nice weapons and armor... Perhaps the HSer could kick the RPers behind as far as equipment/ but the RP can use more skill with his and likely has more friends(he helped the towne after all)

Kagehi Kossori · Post by **Kagehi Kossori** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:29 am

The drawback to such a system being that they is no AI system capable of generating lots of reasonable and interesting quests. So, quests usually end up being either premade and non-repeatable or your staff has to spend 90% of the time making quests, which means they get little if anything done, unless the quests are all shallow and simplistic. Adding the need to use/develop graphics based areas to that and things only get worse. My point is no one has come up with a decent automatic process to do anything like that and until most quests and in game interaction with NPC, which are RP based, can be more automated, you are going to end up with a lot of crappy RP and many more fairly decent, if repetitive hack and slash.

You just can't get enough people with good ideas to design RP in a game, even if you pay them. If the game become popular enough that they have to entertain 5000 players at a time, they will either burn out overnight or completely fail to keep up with the demand. It is easier to just generate a field of 'some odd creature #43a" and let people hack them to death. And once you do that, RP becomes the far less desirable activity. It is virtually impossible to maintin a balance between them in a game where you have thousands (or even mere hundreds) of players and 90% of them have already done everything.

Ksaturn · Post by **Ksaturn** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:51 am

... though UO and FF XI Quessts/missions may have some points... For instance the UO ant quests, they reqiure some work in both RP and combat but reward you, and you can repeat them infinitely. they reward you with something special in addition to gold that you can only get by doing that quest... something expendable.

A wand of lightning with 5 charges can be a powerful but still limited item. Or better yet with 1d10 charges... and you never know when it will fail. If you have to go woo the wizards love interest for him to get said wand... then maybe she is ticked off and went to another town... across a desert filled with monsters.

Also you said you can make monsters more interesting.... how about some desert raiders who offer not to attack En Masse for a 'toll' of 20 gold crowns per head. Or mayby a Dragon who wants a magic item in a nearby dungeon (too small an entrance for him to enter) and he will pay treasure in twice its worth... or you could just kill him and take the 'reward' (no mean feat i assure you)

so some wiseguy killed the quest dragon... can anyone else do that quest? who said only he wanted it. What if this magic item is sacred to dragons(even a non-magic item like that would be good for this) and they ALL want it... one way or another...

one of the rival dragons might be casting 'Charm' on the villagers and sending into this dangerous dungeon. Can you get them out er will they be cyclopes stew?

RazorBlade · Post by **RazorBlade** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:33 am

If you can find a solution that finally solves this issue, but doesn't go so far to the RP side of it that you lose half of the potential players, then good for you. No one else has *ever* managed it.

Have you ever played Star Wars Galaxies? At least 50% of the professions are non-combat, a lot of players never in their life even fight. There are professions specifically for socializers.

The only problem is that this system right now does not work right because of the development team making a stupid decision. Before that it worked, and once this problem is solved it will work again(in like 5 weeks hopefully.) Even non-RP people were interacting with others because it felt natural in the game design and was enjoyable.

That's why I like this game so much, it's not another, kill until max level, then kill until best equipment, although you CAN do that. You can more or less do whatever you want. Being that a chef, politician or a used speeder salesman. Name it, most certainly you can do it.

Kagehi Kossori · Post by **Kagehi Kossori** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:30 am

Ok. So maybe one game got it right. Out of how many? lol

Seriously, I think Jason missed my point. Why should the same wizard be the only one person in the entire world with a wand of lightning and why should anyone have to repeat the quest and kill him over and over and over, just to replace that wand? This is precisely the problem I am talking about. If it is infinitely repeatable, then it is right back to the same hack-n-slash problem you have in text muds.

Now, providing a way like you mention RazorBlade, so that you can be anything you want, or hunt down the best eq, works, but is the core problem solved? The fact that no matter how many times you defeat NPC 'x', there are an infinite number of NPC 'x's that will respawn, either for the benefit of the few players that haven't killed it yet, or the one guy that just wants to get all the best eq and improve their stats, and figures out that good old 'x' will give them exp and cash the fastest?

This is what bugs the hell out of me about all NPC systems, especially ones with virtually 0 AI. It is also why while Star Wars Galaxies may have broken the mold, most fail to and text based games often either go, "You want to RP? Go for it, but we are not going to help." or "Why aren't you RPing? It is manditory!" You can't win if you are someone that wants to do both, but doesn't want to be forced to do either. Ok, so it may be possible to build one from scratch that will do it. However, most MMORPGs can't even manage the flexibility of text games, never mind breaking out of the mold completely.

EA isn't exactly the people you are going to see doing it. Their last attempt at a 'true' immersive game was Majestic. It failed because they tried to spoon feed information to people and tried to control how people playing where able to interact. This is probably because they didn't want to spend 24/7 making content for it and finding ways to mix their mistakes into the game world, the way the AI promo game did, but it meant that in the long run it stunk. EA, went the dust settled, claimed it was the players that didn't get it... Considering that several thousand of those players where people from www.cloudmakers.org, who later went on to create www.collectivedetective.org, this is a lame and completely unfounded excuse. Unfortunately, a lot of game designers now think that pretty graphics tied to enlessly hacking bunny rabbits to death is 'immersive' and once again, they miss the basic point. If only one of the batch of newer games have done better, that is hopeful, but still extremely sad.

Bomb Bloke · Post by **Bomb Bloke** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:55 pm

A multiplayer version of Exult...

Say each player controls a team member. There are a lot of quests to solve, and the avatar doesn't really have to be present for them all. With a team, the game could be finished a lot faster.

Throw in a online scoreboard of the fastest teams, and who knows? Could be great fun.

The problem is it would involve editing of the world itself, not just the engine. More items would need to be added, multiple spell books etc. However, a patch system might solve this. Alternatively, Exult could just add the extra objects once the world has loaded.

Too big a project to ask for, though. :/

Ksaturn · Post by **Ksaturn** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:54 am

Patrick i got your point... I was just throwing an idea out there ya'know? Still the same quest with minor modifications and variables can be a totally different experience. This was not included in UO but in UO you were expected to interact(though not forced to). If you want to dungeon crawl in the hardest dungeons in UO then you'd best bring a friend or at least expect to die a few times.

I played a blacksmith in UO and it was so well done it WAS fun... and not just for me! While i may be able to handle minor fights if i wanted the best ores i needed and escort... and i was rich and skilled enough to ensure a warroir would be willing. Would you goto a dungeon and protect a miner from monsters while he works if he give you a suit of chain or 1000 gold in exchange? espesially if you were going there anyway? this offers a place for a HSer & a RPer.

I.E. NPCs arent the only sourse for quests. If there are non-combat classes that can make money or items or such there is always room for hired help. A rouge type class capable of opening ANY lock with few pick and disarming traps without magic would be a fighters best friend next to a healer. Do you know how frustrating it is to kill a monster then find all of its treasure is in a locked chest or vault? a tinker in town wouldn't mind cracking it at all... for half the goodies!

Also treasure hunts... while not the greatest thing in UO it offers GOOD treasure while requireing the skill of multiple people (a miner to dig it/ a cartographer to translate find it/ a fighter to protect it from the horde that comes to claim it/ A tinker to open it) While not all these are required each can contribute and make it much easier!

Bomb bloke you are right... the world is designed for one player. a MMORPG(MassivlyMultiplayerOnlineRolePlayingGame) need a Massive world to explore. The Dungeons must be deeper darker and more dangerous. The towns must be farther apart. Wandering mosters more common in the wilds. there need to be more secrets, more treasures, more political intrigue.... Frankly in multiplayer there just has to be MORE!

Truthfully U7 is already huge... i think you might see now the scale of such a project. however if we only need to support as many as are on this board... perhaps 2 or 3 times that many... it might not be so bad.

I'm not saying that wizard is the only one with a lightning wand patrick... but it could make sense if hes the only one still around who can make them... or recharge them. if i were that wizard i would need reagents en masse if i were to give away my creations... perhaps instead of needing 50 black pearls i need a BIG black pearl... found only in the depths of an ocean infested with sea serpants, winged horrors, terrifying storms and other discourageing obstacles... or perhaps you could buy it from an adventurer who has one... won't be cheap but he won't need it!

Patricks NPC 'x' idea gives me an idea... Imagine an Immortal dragon in the depths of a dungeon... every once in a while a group of aventurers come in and beat him to a bloody pulp, take his treasure, and high-tail it back to the bank and tavern to drink thier money away... I'm that dragon... I regenerate, being immortal, and find myself penneyless... i'm pissed. Surely some of you have heard of dragons pillaging villages or even kingdoms? where do you think they first got thier treasure hoards so many long decades ago? what would the common people think of these 'heros' now, awakening an ancient evil none had been troubled by for centuries?

if this is gonna be for a small group like this who says every players gotta be a human? or even a gargoyle? lets say someone... say coulorless or Dr. Code or patrick or whoever ellse wants to help decides he wants to be a monster? what if the 'NPC' monster idea just flew out the window? Who says the 'avatar' of drakes can't lead a party of lizardmen or orcs or pirates on a raid against the city of trinsic? or defend thier dungeon homes against pesky treasure hunters by building traps?

on that note who says all adventurers have to be PCs? why can't an NPC make a living by hunting beasties?

I think i'll save the rest for another post...

Daemongar · Post by **Daemongar** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:22 am

What would be nice would be to have a social MMORPG that has a FINITE set of magic items or resources - with a shelf life of the server of 1 year or something. The players battle monsters and each other over the items - there would be some uber powerful items that make you only able to be taken out by a group (a la the One Ring) but it would be dynamic because even in guild some could turn on you to steal the ring...

I would love a game that appeals to players darker natures - not like UO where you get ganked with nothing in your pockets (hey, I fired up UO:SA to play on a UOX server two days ago to see how it's changed in 5 years - I got killed two times in 30 minutes - it's still the same) for no reason, but where it calls out the best and the worst in people.

DaoC has items that help the entire realm, but thats not "personal" enough for me, though I think the game is fun (albeit repetetive and boring as any other MMORPG.)

Kagehi Kossori · Post by **Kagehi Kossori** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:17 am

Ok. I see your point Jason. It is still not easy to do and can end up being shallow. For example, I have had an idea, for the text based game I play at, for a NPC which starts out merely as a rumor, then eventually gets awakened and someone has to put him back in his box. The problem is making things interesting enough that people don't realize until too late that they may have been helping him wake up from day one, without intending to. And then, once someone defeats him... How do you make it so they can't do a simple series of things to wake him up again? This is a lot harder than dropping a big dragon in a hole, beating it up and having it attack a village in revenge, over and over. And if the mob is truely permanent, then eventually it becomes routine, no matter how strong it is.

I wouldn't mind seeing something a lot smarter, which adapts to events. Like who is to say some cult won't make the dragon you kill even stronger by turning it into a draco-lich? What if good guys got involved instead and started making special weapons from the bones? Why should the system repeat the same story forever, besides the fact that it is just easier to design that way?

Gileathane_Dragon · Post by **Gileathane_Dragon** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:25 pm

I'm utterly unconcerned. (so utterly unconcerned =P that I'm posting on the exult board about it) But seriously, with exult, lazarus and *hopes and prays* Redemption around, there's plenty of REAL Ultima for everyone.

I'd frigging pay for a remake of Ultima8 or 9 done in the exult engine, but I wouldn't wipe my arse with that Odyssey crap.

Bomb Bloke · Post by **Bomb Bloke** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:20 am

UO is a bit odd... My brother (a UO vet) is not overly well armed, but he can survive being attacked by four other characters at the same time. Providing they don't run off, he kills them all, given time.

The Ultima story is over. Heck, the Origin story is over. Although in both of their writes of the U9 story there was left room for furthar games, no one who knows anything about the brand is really prepared to accept any.

Why did the UX project start? Was it started by a suit, or did the programming team decide they wanted to try their hand at Origin's trademark?

matt · Post by **matt** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:48 pm

I would love to see an Ultima X done by someone other than Richard Garriot. There have been some good sequels done that weren't made by the original creator (system shock 2 comes to mind). Richard Garriot had 2 chances to make an Ultima VII sequel that cut mustard and neither came close... in retrospect Ultima VIII is more "Ultima"-like than Ultima XI (just my opinion, did anyone think Ultima XI "felt" like an Ultima?). A true Ultima X... new land, single player, living world, isometric view.... sweet...

Bomb Bloke · Post by **Bomb Bloke** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:11 pm

(It's IX - not XI!)

If I remember correctly, the Ultima games were Origin's way of showing off their new technology. Ultima IX had a very nice engine indeed (even if it was buggy).

Ultima VIII presumably had a more complex engine then Ultima VII, but had nowhere near as much gameplay and interest in it.

This was probably due to complaints that Ultima VII was too big. Only a console gamer could ever make such a stupid remark about one of the best RPGs ever.

Ksaturn · Post by **Ksaturn** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:12 am

Has no one even mentioned the underworld games? Sure its a different system but it is Ultima.

Unhappy Ultima X fan · Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:50 am

But if i remeber UW wasn't created by Origin it was created by an other company. Origin was like EA for Origin.

Post by **Dominus** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:33 am

Origin was like EA for Origin.

huh?
Ah, yes, Origin were the "producer" of UW and not the actual director (Looking Glass was). Somewhere is an interview that tells the whole story. They had the engine but no distributor, finally had Origin interested and made a "ultima-mod" of it.

If I remember correctly, the Ultima games were Origin's way of showing off their new technology.

slightly different: Ultima games were Origins way of taxing new technology. Their new technology is true but only in so much that mostly all new games (apart from clones) show off the new technology of the game company.
Apart from the u8 engine no U7 engine was used for any other non-Ultima game (u8-engine was used for the two Crusaders and the starting point of the UO engine).

Post by **Colourless** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:50 pm

Ultima underworld 1 was pretty much Looking Glass' idea for a game with some light Ultima lore splashed on top because that is the only way they could get it published. Underworld 2 however was different. It was developed as an Ultima from the beginning.

Ksaturn · Post by **Ksaturn** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:15 pm

I agree Colourless... The second underworld... Labrinth of worlds... was my first true 'ultima' experience. It was tied into the storyline much better.

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:50 am

Hey... as far as i am concerned any game not produced by origin is not a true ultima, and will only ever be a remake. This does not include Exult, as Exult is a game engine used to run ultima on todays os's not a remake of an old game. i for one am glad to see this game fail. As MV said "Being a true ultima fan, I would have spat on that game." this holds true to me aswell.

Pan Sola · Post by **Pan Sola** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:11 am

Belial said:
Hey... as far as i am concerned any game not produced by origin is not a true ultima, and will only ever be a remake. This does not include Exult, as Exult is a game engine used to run ultima on todays os's not a remake of an old game. i for one am glad to see this game fail.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Ultima: Odyssey was produced by Origin. The Origin without RG of course...

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:10 pm

mate i obviosly didnt have all the facts before i posted but.. richy has left the company and ths lord british the first and foremost in Ultima is gone and will not be able to contirbute his infinite years of wisdom from the battlefield. As he has left it will not be a Origin production as far as im concerned. he is origin mate... without him waking up one morning and saying hmmm... i think i might bugger around with akalabeth... then i dont see origin to be where or what it is today.... it wouldnt have had the greatest games ever made under its belt.. so i stand by my comment of it is a remake...
Thanks for the comment though...

Dunadan28 · Post by **Dunadan28** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 10:36 pm

I consider Ultima 7 the best Ultima, and Richard Garriott as i recall did not much work on Ultima 7 and Serpent Isle, he was busy with other things.
The real reason you have so much world interactive, is Warren Spector and his team.
If you would ever want a new Ultima in the likes of Ultima 7 it should include Warren.
When you watch later games he worked on like Deus Ex you can see there is still alot of things you can do, like pick up every item you see and use is etc.

-Dunadan

Pan Sola · Post by **Pan Sola** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:00 am

Belial: yeah I understand your feelings.

Though I disagree with your statement "he is origin mate". He *was* Origin -- He is now Destination.

He's working on a new game Tabula Rasa, as the Executive Producer of "Destination Games". www.playtr.com

Probably still won't be as good as the Ultimas in its greatest glory, but it's an online game, and might cause some revolution in that area. (-:

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:30 pm

Dunadan :"Richard Garriott as i recall did not much work on Ultima 7 and Serpent Isle, he was busy with other things.
The real reason you have so much world interactive, is Warren Spector and his team."

im not concerned with how much work richard did behind the scenes.. how much programming or graphical work he did. my point was and still is... if richard was not there in the beginnning the games 'they' made wouldnt be here now....

but lile Pan Sola said " he "was" origin" so all of this is in the past and can be considered what was once a great game and series being reproduced, remade and redesigned by any who see fit...