u7 online

Brokenfusion · Post by **Brokenfusion** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 4:57 pm

Didn't there used to be a online U7 someone was making? It hardly got anywhere if I can remember, but it did work. I can't find it anynmore.

Kuroshi · Post by **Kuroshi** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 5:21 pm

I've never tried it, but I think you can find it by searching Sourceforge.

Ravenous Dragon · Post by **Ravenous Dragon** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 6:10 pm

It was called the Blackrock Engine

Not sure about it's whereabouts...

Skutarth · Post by **Skutarth** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 6:27 pm

You can find the blackrock engine here.

http://www.geocities.com/ultima7online/

This is a link to the title page. Click on the link and it will take you to the status and update page.
On that page it tells you if the server is up or down and tells you of what has been updated. This is just another obstacle.

There is two directions from here. You can go to the sourceforge site, or you can go on to his site, which I've never seen, but only if the server is up, which it usually isn't. I can't remember the last time it was up. I checked the site about 15 minutes before I posted this message and it wasn't up.

If you choose to go to the sourceforge site, you can check the program out like you can with Exult's. You can post on the forum, post bugs, and all of that type. You can also look at the source under the CVS section and if you have the wits to do it, you can try to port the online options and ect.

I wouldn't try to wait for the server to be up, the last time I saw it come up was some random time last year. Just try to port it to Exult, and Godspeed with that.

Roman · Post by **Roman** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 7:02 pm

no doubt

SB-X · Post by **SB-X** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:36 pm

Thats the problem with these "online" adaptations. IMO if you want to play U7 on the internet, enable it so you and a few friends can run around Britannia together. No need to create a persistent, server-based world - play UO for that.

Kuroshi · Post by **Kuroshi** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:54 pm

I'm guessing you've used these adaptations before, SB-X. How are they?

SB-X · Post by **SB-X** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 10:31 pm

No I was commenting on this thread, I havn't even visited that site.

I havn't heard of more than two attempts to make an online U7.

Skutarth · Post by **Skutarth** » Tue Jun 11, 2002 5:53 am

What were they?

SB-X · Post by **SB-X** » Tue Jun 11, 2002 7:57 am

The one at the link you posted, and the one mentioned in the following thread:
http://exult.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1592#p1592

Brokenfusion · Post by **Brokenfusion** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 8:44 pm

I just wanted it so I could maybe play U7 with a couple of friends. Not like UO.

Roman · Post by **Roman** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 1:38 pm

blackrock is one
agreed brokenfusion

Post by **artaxerxes** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 4:07 am

Before you guys start whining for Ultima 7 Online or whatever that could be, THINK first, with your brain, for more than a second.

How do you play it? How are the dialogues taken care of? the flags? The items? the combat system? etc.

How are the companions joining you? They go with the strongest among you players or with the first you asked to join etc ?

You can't just whine, I wannnnnnnnna playyyyyy with myyyy friennnnnnds.....

You have to think HOW it could be played and what can be done if you play together. This ain't a Quake-type game...

U7 online makes NO SENSE at all whatsoever.
Artaxerxes

British Fiend · Post by **British Fiend** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 7:34 am

Okay Art here goes:
You'd have small quests, for everyone.
No Shamino, Dupre, Iolo-party members, only NPC's or PC's if any.
We'd have to make it harder to play, not leaving as much treasure around, increase the land size, allow building, combat and dialogue with NPC's would be left as is.
Of course, dialogue with a PC would probly appear above the head.
then you'd type in whatever you want down at the bottom of the screen into some type of box.
Or better yet, text would appear above the heads and down on the bottom of the screen in a box.
You wouldn't want quests to run once for all players-but once for each person thats probly the easiest and most apparent problem.
Same w/ NPC flags too right?
I think it would be a good idea to have U7O, I'd like to see it happen.
Even if at first it was just a bunch of people running around with no NPC party members. I belive it'd catch on.
Imagine how many people would like to congregate in Britain or how many dark mages would live in Dungeon Destard. It would be entertaining but to make it really work you'd need more updateing, you'd need house-building and more land, and more NPC's and definitly more jobs.
I think the player shapes would be easy as pie, just have each player pick one of the preset shapes: Monk, Townsperson, Noble or whichever.

Post by **wjp** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 7:58 am

That sounds suspiciously like Ultima Online. What would be the feature that would set it aside from it?

British Fiend · Post by **British Fiend** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 8:53 am

The number 7.

Kuroshi · Post by **Kuroshi** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:54 pm

I dunno, I'd think it'd be just fine if the only multiplayer aspect of it was that each player would play a party member. I'd only be playing it with my friends anyhow. Though we'd probably spend most of our time rampaging around Brittania, trying to collect all the booty we could, battling each other on the high seas. Kinda the opposite of co-operative, not really going through the plotline. =)

A more interesting multi idea would be to let people connect remotely to your U7 world and edit it at the same time you are. Reminds me of my time playing MUDs, except with graphics. I wouldn't really mind if it was still singlePLAYER, it'd just make modding more fun.

Not really asking anyone to do this, just talkin'.

Brokenfusion · Post by **Brokenfusion** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 5:38 pm

Does it matter if it's set apart from UO. The main difference is you can only play with 1 or 2 or 3 other friends. Maybe a max of 8 players. Choose co-op where each one plays a party member and the avatar starts the quest as normal and the others play other party-members from single player. Just start the party with as many characters as there are players - no AI allies. Or choose deathmatch ("fun" mode

) where there are no quests anymore just 8 avatars rampaging around the world, and anyone can recruit the AI party members like Dupre and use them against their friends (enemies? heheh) You "respawn" in a random town if you die. All the areas that you can only get to thru a quest are opened up. Bam - you have a funn multiplayer UO. I'm not saying its going to happen or anything I just think it would be fun.

SB-X · Post by **SB-X** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 5:27 am

I hear UO is multiplayer too.
Some people even consider it fun.

British Fiend · Post by **British Fiend** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 7:57 am

UO FUN? No way.
Anyway- i think it'd be better if you turned into a community rather than just a 1,2,3 player game or something

Brokenfusion · Post by **Brokenfusion** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 12:12 am

No man, cause a community is UO.
Here's another idea. Just have one player start the game as the avatar, and lets say up to 3 others can join as a sprite of their choice with avatar-like stats. they can talk to npcs about basic stuff but not get storyline quests . the avatar player -can- follow the storyline if he/she wants to. That way the others can join the party and do the story line, or everyone can rip it up across britannia.

British Fiend · Post by **British Fiend** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 3:22 am

Broken, your idea isn't fun, mine is.
:p

UO isn't the only RPG online, U70 isn't a U0-wannabe, its just a community dwelling, there should be two options, local multiplay, and community multiplay.
PK'ers is a interesting idea, something that needs to be improved upon.
Anyone who attacks w/ out provocation should get the guards sent after them.
Its pretty foolproof, just make sure the guards are better off- stat wise than the player they are arresting.
Now, if you're out in the wilderness, theres no guards to save your whiney ass.
However, perhaps set some type of friendship flag, where if you completed a sub-quest and gained the friendship of another species(aka the wisps) they would protect you when you were in combat near their territory.
Prison is a good idea, but have some type of hard-to find escape key as an alternative to waiting your sentence in the jail cell.

XxVenomxX · Post by **XxVenomxX** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 6:36 am

And so it goes, round and round. It's sorta like deja vu from months ago, hehe.

Armchair_Avatar · Post by **Armchair_Avatar** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 6:39 am

I want an Ultima 8 online

Post by **Dominus** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 8:56 am

Well, if you really wanted it, you could use UO and edit the way you waant and set up a free shard for you and your friends to play on. It would be as much work to make UO into a U7O than to make Exult into U7O.
Consider it.
There is already software that lets you make a custom shard.

Skutarth · Post by **Skutarth** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 8:58 am

Ultima 8 sucks, and it would also suck online.
'Nuff said.

XxVenomxX · Post by **XxVenomxX** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 12:11 pm

That's your opinion, and it amounts to jack in everyone else's eyes. Some people think the idea for U7Online sucks. 'Nuff said? Apparently not. Speak for yourself there Skutarth.

Kuroshi · Post by **Kuroshi** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 12:30 pm

He did. =)

XxVenomxX · Post by **XxVenomxX** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 1:01 pm

Oh, sorry. I guess I thought "I think" or "In my opinion" said "'Nuff said"

Raven Pyros · Post by **Raven Pyros** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 7:44 pm

Keep yer' shirts on.

I agree with the no-constant u7o. It's just plain a new game, lets start with the ground up if we want to use some widely advanced ideas with games a decade old.

My fav idea right now would be:
- Have the extra characters play as their own character (probably one of the regular party members would work best because it'd be easier to implenent, at least artisticly, and it would make a lot more sense for the plot) with their own item, stats and combat management.

- Items given or used on other players could be recieved and filtered by an options list, such as "don't recieve dangerous" (green potions etc.) and "don't recieve food" if you want to feed your own dang self.

- Conversations would be handled by the conversation starter and be viewed by all players.

- The NPC characters could be handled equally by all players unless you wanted the option of "Avatar Only" if you want to be all dictator like on your NPC's.

- Death could be new an excitingly terrific because now the Avatar could be ressurected by the party members while he'd have to wait around and watch. But, if all the players die, just handle it like an Avatar-death would be.

- Names might be confusing when your player (Let's say Iolo) is being reffered to as the avatar. Since I'm sure there's a flag in the text that calls the avatar by their name which is used most of the time, maybe we could tack another flag on it to check which player started the conversation and say their name. (Simple enough isn't it? lol... programming simple... rotflmbo) And when they actually call the player Avatar just give them a puzzled look and shrug it off, cause hey, Iolo's pretty easy going.

(You can tell I'm getting a wee bit tired at this stage of my writing, I've got one more idea but I'll try not to bore you.)

- There could also be an option to send your player roaming as a seperate party and meet up to exchange info and items as you go about your seperate quests or meet up and turn the option off to become one party. You'd be dividing and regrouping as the game progressed.

- Each player would have their own NPC companions and manage them as their own with the option to allow eachother to mingle through eachothers' belongings when you meet.

- Conversations and flags would be played seperately and each character could investigate quests and the like completely independantly. When they meet each person would have an update to a "quest log" and maybe a "conversation log" for the other players to catch up on at any time.

- As far as meeting an NPC for the first time and them saying things like "Oh thank you Iolo for helping with the pumpkin crop, I could've never done it without you, what with my aching back and all..." when in fact is was Dupre who brought in the pumpkin harvest, unless someone wants to type a whole lot of extra conversational pieces for NPC's to use when talking to a 'friend of a quester' and the like, I wouldn't bother trying to fix it.

Thanks a bunch,

|7a\/e|\|

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 10:04 pm

heres how I think it should go:

Okay, we start with Ultima 7. We cannot think too big at the moment because it will take a long while for the wheels to start turning.
The pre pre alpha release will be like this:

* No Talking
* No Talking to NPCS
* No Party System
* No Quests
* Everyone respawns in Britannia somewhere in the centre
* You can select any paperdoll (so long as it's got the animations for all actions)
* Any non party-joining NPCS will have a default paperdoll
* NPCS will still do their own thing but you won't be able to talk to them
* No Sleeping
* You can use items, use objects (doors, levers), fight and cast spells
* When a monster is killed, no one will be able to pick up that body or access items within until the 10 seconds has gone.
* items that you have put down, can't be picked up by other players until 10 seconds is done (the bakery would be madness without this

* If someone is using an item, you can't move that item around (ie: no taking other people's chairs when they are sitting down)
* Every door, cage, chest etc... will be unlocked
* No using carages, ships or the magic carpet
* Players can steal but the guards will be called if caught. Also, moving items around will be taken more seriously and NPCS will wake up if you move their items at night.
* No Pk'ing other players (Co-op only)
* Everyone will start with their own spell book and 20 of each reagents
* Limits on certain spells will be enforced (ie: no aramaggedon

)
* The limit to clients in the game will be 100 (at this point in time)
* When players die, they respawn back again with only their spell book and a few other essentials. Other clients' spellsbooks cannot be taken or looted after Pk'ing
* A server will store all the characters on it's machine. The game world will be saved onto the server and continually updated. The server will have special privlages and can hack move, kick clients, import items and do anything to game. But these privlages must not be abused.

This is very basic and you just have people roaming around killing things and causing havoc because of them being completely dumb (dumb meaning can't talk). That is the pre pre alpha and it's crucial to have a very basic version to add things to later.

Now for the pre-alpha we will get a little advanced:

* You can talk, but it will be a saught've UO style thing. You can see what your saying above your head
* Again No talking to NPCS
* Still No Quests
* You can pick which city to respawn at
* Monster difficulty will be greater now.
* You PK now but only when you are level 5 only be able to attack level 5+ players
* Spells will be divided into certain types (ie: beneficial, non benefical) and you will only be able to cast benefical spells on other players.
* No Sleeping (sleeping will not be required yet)
* Monsters will respawn at a greater rate to make up for all the bloodshed
* Carages, ships and the magic carpert can be used freely without certificate but they will be limited as quantity
* The server limit is still set at 100
* Everything is still unlocked eliminating the use for keys, levers and the rest

At this point the game will resemble something like Diablo but this will not be for long. The alpha release will change this somewhat.

Alpha will have:

* No Quests again
* Talking to NPCS is allowed but only to shopkeepers. The quest speech options that shopkeepers have will need to be eliminated temporarily (Training, buying weapons, learning spells and purchasing food and exchanging gold bars for money will all be available) These NPCS will be indestructable for obvious reasons.
* Everything will still be unlocked
* The magic carpet will be removed temporarily
* More ships and carages will be located along shore lines and near towns. These are still free.
* if you run into someone or something with a carage or ship, the vessal will stop until you move direction.
* No sleeping yet
* Server Limit is now at 150 clients
* A Party system will be implemented with a limit of 8. Party memebers can still attack each other and experience is not shared.
* To execute commands such an inviting people into your party, a console will be used.
* Within the party, only one carage or ship can be used.
* Party memebers can't access each others backpacks but will be able to see the paperdoll and level satistics.

Some of the options in the beta will be hard to program in but will be well worth it. Now for Pre-beta there will need to be some changes to make the world more sustainable. Such things will include new NPCS to assist with hunting rewards. With everyone raiding the dungeons and such, there isn't going to be a lot of gold left

Pre-beta will have:

* Newer NPCS that will reward you for particular animal and monster carcasses. These will be located in all different cities and will be the main source of income for many.
* A descent magic shop that sells staffs and other little goodies
* Another Bakery for those who enjoy making bread

* No quests still
* Everythings unlocked still
* Chat Bubbles can be opened if you want to sell items and the like.

And that's all I can think of at the moment. What I'm hoping for will be a Spell System that PK's can't take advantage of. Some exploits could easily occur such as casting mass sleep on a party and then bombarding them with firebolts, then looting all their items. Also, i don't really think the main quest of ultima 7 can be done in U7Online. There are many reasons and the complications of such a task would be incredible. Side quests you might be able to get a way with, providing that they are modified in such a way to suite the MMORPG environment. Still don't know what can be done about doors and keys.

Now I understand this will be a massive undertaking so we will need alot of people to help here. Exult will be what U7Online runs on and we will only use the offical releases of Exult. Whever there is an offical update announced we will update U7Online to suite the newer version. You might call U7Online an add-on for Exult because that is what it will essentially be.
If any one has any suggestions or want to help program please keep posting here.

I also want to say that what I have suggested above is in no way perfect, and I would appreciate any corrections (not spelling ones if you can help it

EbeneezerSquid · Post by **EbeneezerSquid** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 1:25 am

Couldn't it be possible to work in both directions? There would be a lot in common on the programming side, I think, with U7p2p (i.e. "I wanna play with my Friends!!!!!") and the pre-pre-alpha U7Online. U7Online's programming priorities would have to change a bit for them to coincide more at the early stages, but I think that U7p2p's main streagth would be to get more people interested in making U7Online, and ergo helping out with it.

BTW: Daniel, I'll be glad to help out - unfortunately I am presently below the rudimentry programming level and will remain so until I get out of the Navy and start College (again) in Aug.

Skutarth · Post by **Skutarth** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 2:34 pm

Didn't you post this before, Daniel?

I noticed you fixed that pre-alpha after beta problem.

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 6:41 pm

Yeah, you're right

but I thought it was so fitting with everyone sprading their ideas.
I quite sure we can make this work if we ignore some of the negative feedback by people who don't think it's possible (in just don't want to think of it as possible).

Now I'm sure i'll be getting critism for saying something like that, so bring it on!

British Fiend · Post by **British Fiend** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 8:46 am

Daniel, why think small? Yes- lay out a basic frame, but don't plan small....plan large.

EbeneezerSquid · Post by **EbeneezerSquid** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 11:17 am

I agree with the Brit - think LARGE!!! But don't remember KISS, either. I think that is one of the things that may have damaged UO when it started out (and I played it). I hear they have fixed many of the problems, but I haven't played in over 2 years, and don't plan on picking it back up.
I definitely think that U7Online (actually shouldn't it be Exult Online? sounds a little catchier, I think) should remain true to it's roots, but there is so much more that could be done with it than people think. What about increasing the resolution? No real technical difficulties with that I believe, just needs people to touch up the artwork - and I can guarantee there are more people on this board who can run an art program than a compiler.
I can even see Exult 5, 10, 15 years down the road being able to run completely indepentently of the U7 data files - but still checking for them until EA stops publishing it in any form and sends it to the abandonware files. (which would be anywhere from 5 to 15 years from now - after all, if the collection is now selling for $10, EA is making less than $3 a copy for U7 - U7 and U8 being the major draws, plus pub costs.)
I can think of many more short range things, but I think I've rambled on for long enough for now.

ramble, ramble, ramble

EbeneezerSquid · Post by **EbeneezerSquid** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 6:17 pm

I meant to *FORGET* K.I.S.S. my last post is probably crawling with digital dyslexia and compile bugs, but I'm too tired to try to fix right now. got to be up at 0400.

Gimmie an "F!"
"F!"
Gimmie a "T!"
"T!"
Gimmie an . . . honorable discharge!
. . . and I'll tell you the last letter.

grumble, grumble

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 9:39 pm

Look I know for experience that if you are planning something major, produce something simple first. Otherwise you become confused with all the minor details instead of the wider picture. Anyway, those 'minor details' can always be added later and that is what this project will be built around. We keep the code so that if a major freature needs adding, we don't have to break down all the code. It's also proven that when to start small, your success rate is higher than if you planned something large and it didn't turn out.

I never actually said to plan small though. I mean plan large but start small!
How do you think Exult got started? Did they wait until it was as bug free as today's versions before they started releasing it? No.

It was only a year and a half ago when you could only have the avatar move around britannia in one staticc animation.

Roman · Post by **Roman** » Thu Jun 20, 2002 9:15 am

exactly daniel, first get it so the game can be run with people in it...then work out the details like talking to npcs and missions.

Skutarth · Post by **Skutarth** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:15 pm

Why are we bickering about it? Look at the details, you are arguing about something that you want done that nobody is going to make. Let's end this post now unless any of you wish to start a team, for all this is getting us nowhere. If we must continue on, make it important. Make a point.

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 11:33 pm

I think you're right there Skutarth.

Now, who thinks they would be up to the job of programming it?
That's the main problem we are facing as the complexity of integrating TCP/IP support into the Exult engine would be quite hard.

I know that I could help in the way multiplayer would be set out but I am afraid that I would be useless in the programming area. So in the end I'm not much help :/

Post by **nadir** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 5:12 am

Integrating TCP/IP support in Exult is trivial, and in fact that's how Exult Studio talks to Exult

Defining a decent protocol, handling concurrent interaction of objects in the Exult world... now that IS hard.

Post by **artaxerxes** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 5:52 am

finding a way to have several "playing" players in Exult is HARDER

and that's why ExultOnline will not work nor exist.

Artaxerxes

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 6:15 pm

oh dear, with such optimism this project will definately work out

Brokenfusion · Post by **Brokenfusion** » Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:52 am

Wow this has gotten big. I rule!

Skutarth · Post by **Skutarth** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:26 pm

Yeah, look at my first Ultima 7 Online post that everyone decided to thrash unlike yours for some sort of reason.

But the thing is, it can work, at least with a decent amount of work put into it... The thing is that it would have to be high in quality, or you would be wasting your time on something that is non-profit and nobody likes. This is why big name companies throw out titles that suck-- money...

Roman · Post by **Roman** » Sat Jul 06, 2002 8:56 am

I'm sorry, I always support multiplayer, even if all it is, is u7 with running around killing monsters...so long as I am with my buds in the one best games ever, I am happy.