#exult full logs for 12 Oct 2004 (GMT)
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[05:01:51] <Sheng_Gradilla> :)
[05:03:53] <Baastuul> Hallo!
[05:04:04] * Sheng_Gradilla hugs Baastuul
[05:08:15] <Baastuul> :o
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[06:40:38] <servus> NOT ANOTHER DARKE!!!
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[13:24:09] --- Topic for #exult is: There *is* no topic! *There* is no topic! There is *no* topic! There is no *topic*! (But if there was one, it would probably be about Exult 1.2.)
[13:24:09] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Wed Jun 16 22:42:33 2004
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[14:15:02] <bohan> hi
[14:15:07] <bohan> what's exult?
[14:16:30] <bohan> are you still using the std c++ lib as a dll?
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[14:16:57] <bohan> have you ran into any problem, or does it work fine?
[14:25:17] <Sheng_Gradilla> you should definitely read the FAQ
[14:25:32] <Sheng_Gradilla> http://exult.sourceforge.net/faq.php
[14:47:49] <bohan> hmm, i see some msvcstuff dir
[14:47:56] <bohan> don't you use mingw?
[14:48:17] <wjp> exult compiles fine with mingw
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[14:51:01] <Sheng_Gradilla> why do people always think just because there are MSVC stuff in there the thing won't compile on some other compiler?
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[14:51:07] <bohan> you seems to be one of the very few projects (after extensive google researches) talking about having the std c++ lib as a libstdc++.dll. so, i was wondering if you could tell me if that's reliable of if it's better to stick to the static version
[14:51:43] <bohan> Sheng_Gradilla, hehe, sorry.. maybe because if it works with gcc, then, there's no real need to maintain msvc support
[14:52:14] <Sheng_Gradilla> bohan: what do you mean "real need"?
[14:52:49] <Colourless> msvc produces faster code...
[14:52:52] <bohan> i mean, if you can compile the code on windows with gcc already, why bothering with msvc?
[14:52:55] <bohan> ha
[14:52:59] <wjp> some people like the debugger
[14:53:33] <wjp> and there's no "real need" not to support it :-)
[14:53:39] <Sheng_Gradilla> limiting yourself to one single compiler means closing the door to many other developers
[14:53:58] <Colourless> supporting MSVC.Net and better is pretty trivial, so why not
[14:53:59] <bohan> Sheng_Gradilla, i understand that
[14:55:02] <bohan> your project seems very active.. for most project, they need to minimize the maintainance
[14:55:14] <bohan> +costs
[14:55:22] <Sheng_Gradilla> costs? :D
[14:55:31] <bohan> cost of time ;p
[14:56:03] <Sheng_Gradilla> that kind of corporate thing never applies to fan made and open source projects
[14:56:09] <bohan> i mean, you have to maintain both makefiles and vcproj files in parallel, isn't it?
[14:56:42] <bohan> about libstdc++.dll, any info?
[14:57:00] <Sheng_Gradilla> not really
[14:57:12] <Colourless> that is not exactly a problem keeping makefiles and projects up to date.
[14:57:40] <Colourless> i use MSVC so whenever i update i make sure things are upto date
[14:57:44] <Sheng_Gradilla> lets say, a mingw user does some changes, updates the makefile, and never bothers about the MSVC stuff
[14:58:13] <Sheng_Gradilla> then when the MSVC user does something, he will certainly catch up
[14:58:16] <Sheng_Gradilla> and vice versa
[14:58:18] <bohan> i'm building a self-contained dev-pack for windows, which includes a lot of c++ dlls built with mingw, and i find it really a pitty that they are so big
[14:58:58] <Colourless> my preference is statically linked runtime libraries
[14:59:05] <bohan> libgtkmm is 17MB, for example :-(
[14:59:13] <wjp> libstdc++ is linked into every dll?
[14:59:20] <Sheng_Gradilla> bohan: the point of having DLLs is that of saving space, they are meant to be in your system or system32 directory
[14:59:24] <wjp> somehow that sounds less than optimal :-)
[14:59:36] <bohan> wjp, i think yes.. i haven't built those dll myself
[14:59:48] <Colourless> are they stripped?
[14:59:52] <Colourless> doesn't sound like it
[14:59:59] <Sheng_Gradilla> run strip on them
[15:00:11] <wjp> (or not, if you want debugging info in them :-) )
[15:00:12] <Colourless> 17 mb MUST be including line numbers
[15:00:29] <bohan> the total of dll my project depends on is around 60MB
[15:01:18] <bohan> and if i try to strip --strip-debug or --strip-unneeded them all, i get access violations
[15:01:54] <bohan> yes, 17MB is with debugging info.. but if i strip them, it won't work anymore
[15:02:18] <Colourless> then you have problem elsewhere
[15:03:33] <bohan> i think i'm going to try to recompile them myself, and this gives me the oportunity to use libstdc++ as a shared lib, so that's why i was looking for some info about this
[15:05:29] <wjp> did you try to debug those access violations?
[15:05:41] <bohan> hmm, no..
[15:07:18] <bohan> i just thought it was a bug the stripping tools
[15:09:01] <Sheng_Gradilla> are the DLLs in memory when you try to strip them?
[15:09:38] <Sheng_Gradilla> Windows tends to lock down libraries when they are in memory
[15:09:39] <bohan> no, they are copied in the newly installation dir
[15:10:22] <Sheng_Gradilla> did you make sure they are NOT read-only?
[15:10:26] <bohan> "installation dir", i mean, the --prefix passed to configure
[15:10:59] <bohan> hmm, the file permission?
[15:12:10] <bohan> anyway, i'm gonna try to recompile all those gtk+/gtkmm libs
[15:17:34] <bohan> it's weird that on the whole world, there's only two projects so far having talking about having the standard lib as a shared lib... exult, and octave
[15:19:28] <bohan> * that talk about having
[15:19:44] <Colourless> it is something that is frowed upon.
[15:19:56] <Colourless> it's an extra dependancy
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[15:26:00] <bohan> i really need smaller dlls ... the project i'm working on is a plugin based audio studio, so, there will be dozens of very small pieces of code ("plugins") compiled as .dll files.. i just can't stand them being like 300kB instead of 10kB
[15:26:40] <bohan> it just look too ridiculous, and other devers will stick to msvc
[15:32:37] <bohan> haha, it's more like 500kB per dll, even
[15:34:32] <bohan> weird.. i just did a test using cygwin's strip command instead of msys one, and it works now
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[15:35:29] <bohan> ha, no
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[19:02:31] <wjp> and there was much rejoicing :-)
[19:03:35] <sbx> i certainly hope so
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[19:05:29] <sbx> hi Darke
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[19:49:34] <Dominus> hi
[20:04:48] <sbx> hi
[20:09:47] <sbx> domnius
[20:09:49] <sbx> dominus
[20:09:57] <sbx> is the bug with alagnar not dying a FAQ?
[20:11:03] <Dominus> I don't exactly know what causes it
[20:11:18] <sbx> you have to come in from the south door and trigger the appropriate egg
[20:11:48] <sbx> maybe there is one on the east door but its harder to trigger
[20:12:00] <sbx> by the east door*
[20:12:10] <Dominus> ah, I knew that some time ago :-)
[20:13:50] <Dominus> noted and will write something sometime
[20:14:58] <sbx> ok thanks
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[21:15:50] <servus> Wish I had more time to work on this! Argh! Off to work!
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